Re: Are ball pythons even [I]slightly[/I] arboreal?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kitedemon
They are quite funny when mine do one in particular seems to think he can balance on the top edge of the thermometer probe. He is 1800 gm and as big around as my wrist... when he fails he look around to see if anyone is laughing at him... again. Ok not quite but if feels that way sometimes.
Interesting debate, I really wish there was more studies being done they are a huge hobby snakes but biologists don't seem very interested. They either want to study the flashy species or the rare ones. There is so much knowledge on the captivity end but very little on the wild end. Maybe I need to find a biologist to team up with and write a grant proposal or two... :rolleyes:
As more and more people are getting into less than mainstream species, more and more issues being seen associated with feeding all-rodents diets.
There have been some excellent papers written in the past three years on this subject. Some get into how mice and rats spike lipid profiles, others deal with issues that arise with some species and how they have difficulties digesting and breaking down the skin of the rodents, and thus need "help" in the way of slicing the prey up.
I spoke to a vet at UC Davis about this last year and he got deep into how some avian prey may be higher in crude fat yield compared to a similarly sized rodent, but that the lipid breakdown is 180 degrees different.
If I feed an adult thrasops two consecutive meals - one of mice and the second of anoles (both same mean weight) and given that the basking and ambient temperatures are the same, the anoles will be processed in less than 30 hours. Mice can take up to 4 days, and I can repeat these results consistently. The metabolic effort to digest a meal of the same exact size is drastically different and that can be evidenced by the lethargy the animals go through while digesting rodents.
Re: Are ball pythons even [I]slightly[/I] arboreal?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kitedemon
That is actually not surprising when you think on it. An anole would be hugely muscle with little fat at all, rats being mammals need to have a fat deposits to make it through. I'd need to do a bit more reading to make a better informed comment I am quite sketchy on lipid vs fat.
I had been thinking about Royals when I commented on field studies but I applies to a handful of others as well I have not been paying attention to lab studies as much as I am interested behaviour of wild Royals at the moment.
On a side note sorry for the hyjack although I think that has occurred ages ago... have you ever tried a bio-active substrate? I am thinking of converting one of my enclosures.
Alex
No not surprising at all, but something to think about when you make the decision to switch an animal who doesn't regularly eat rodents to an all rodent diet.
As for the bio-active substrate, why don't we take that one to PM?
Re: Are ball pythons even [I]slightly[/I] arboreal?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Skiploder
Those quotes were taken from two separate posts a page or so apart.. It seemed to me that you were pretty adamant that they don't climb, and then relented when confronted with the study. If that wasn't the case, then so be it.
Nope, again I am adamant that the type of climbing we see in ball pythons does not indicate that they are arboreal. I am a firm believer that as keepers we need to be looking at the natural environment of the animal and deciding what is necessary, what is beneficial and what is detrimental to the well being of our animals. Of course Ball Pythons climb. I have seen mine climb all over the place, but why am I saying climb? Well they don't have legs and they don't exactly jump. I would suggest that adding branches to an enclosure is great to mimic ground cover not to mimic trees. Now in most cases with 12" to 18" high enclosures there is not much difference but the intent is still important to understanding the needs of the animal. I have done a little bit of research on BP diet. I have the means to raise quail or chicks as feeders if I felt it would benifit my snake. To date I have seen no evidence that a varied diet would help my animal and a decent amount of anecdotal evidence that it could hurt. I am much more concerned with the diet of my California King Snake who is being fed mice currently. I am certainly not saying that all the research that needs to be done is in. I was responding entirely to the OP and you have taken the thread of on an interesting tangent.
