New Year's Puppies

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Originally Posted by Repfanaticlady28

All of my dogs and cats are rescues. I have never bought from a breeder and never will...reputable or not. I don't disagree with breeding purebred, health tested, show quality dogs, but that doesn't mean I'm going to buy them. I believe that if people are going to breed these dogs they need to contribute to their local humane society.

In the matter of this litter and the one from June it's just downright irresponsible and I'm not going to overlook an irresponsible mutt breeder that is posting on a dog forum and getting congratulated for his irresponsibility.
And for those who gave me bad rep points....waste of your time. I could care less what you think of me. I'd give you bad rep points for congratulating an irresponsible mutt breeder, but I know they'd just be taken away anyway since most of the idiots congratulating Jyson and giving me bad rep are mods. Needless to say I'm not a fan of this site and will gladly go back to RZ when I'm finished here.

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I doubt they were giving you negative rep points due to the validity of your information. I think it had to do more with how rude you were to the OP initially. You came across more to me as a troll then you did as an educated dog-person.

I beg your pardon?

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Originally Posted by Repfanaticlady28

And for those who gave me bad rep points....waste of your time. I could care less what you think of me. I'd give you bad rep points for congratulating an irresponsible mutt breeder, but I know they'd just be taken away anyway since most of the idiots congratulating Jyson and giving me bad rep are mods. Needless to say I'm not a fan of this site and will gladly go back to RZ when I'm finished here.

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Sorry but I am not going to let that one slide past.

ONE of the rep interactions you got from this thread was from a member of staff - ONE. Incase your math skills are as rusty as your social skills let me work that out for you. It comes to 33%

Since when was a third classed as "most" ???

In your entire history on the site you have only ever recieved any rep interaction from staff twice. I intend to change that once I have posted this by the way as I really don't like people lying in general and about the staff even less.

And in this thread containing 51 posts, again, ONE was made by a member of staff. I'll let you work that one out yourself ( hint - it's less than 33% this time ). I did thank someones post though if you wish to try and count that in.

And yet you call us idiots. :rolleyes:

The only time your rep points would be taken away was if they broke the rules for the rep system and were either abusive or retaliatory.

I have never had the pleasure of visiting RZ so do not know how they would feel about someone lying about the staff - but I can't imagine them liking it any more than I do.


dr del

Congrats, Jason. There have been some very rude posts here which are generally not appreciated. If those folks can find a place that does appreciate it then hey, go nuts. You can have all of the factual info you want, but when you are that rude in proving your points the facts tend to get overlooked.
Just another .02 from one of the idiot mods.

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Originally Posted by dr del

I beg your pardon?



Sorry but I am not going to let that one slide past.

ONE of the rep interactions you got from this thread was from a member of staff - ONE. Incase your math skills are as rusty as your social skills let me work that out for you. It comes to 33%

Since when was a third classed as "most" ???

In your entire history on the site you have only ever recieved any rep interaction from staff twice. I intend to change that once I have posted this by the way as I really don't like people lying in general and about the staff even less.

And in this thread containing 51 posts, again, ONE was made by a member of staff. I'll let you work that one out yourself ( hint - it's less than 33% this time ). I did thank someones post though if you wish to try and count that in.

And yet you call us idiots. :rolleyes:

The only time your rep points would be taken away was if they broke the rules for the rep system and were either abusive or retaliatory.

I have never had the pleasure of visiting RZ so do not know how they would feel about someone lying about the staff - but I can't imagine them liking it any more than I do.


dr del

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I think this is a pretty chode-ey post coming from a mod, honestly.

Later, Matt

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

I think this is a pretty chode-ey post coming from a mod, honestly.

Later, Matt

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I would disagree. The great thing is that we don't all always have to agree.

Hi,

Whatever else I am - I am still a member of the site Matt.

Was I supposed to quietly watch someone lie and say nothing about it?

Or should I only say something if it isn't the staff they are lying about?

What, exactly, do you think I should be doing in these areas and why?

What about my above post don't you agree with? You never know I might end up agreeing with you.


dr del

I didn't read this whole thread, but skimmed through most of the post. All I can say is WOW. People who put in long hard 3 hour days at a shelter are complaining about a responsible dog breeder.

I think it's misdirected anger. You guys need to be angry and shout at the people who are putting the dogs in the shelter, not people like Jason. That's just rude. I'm sure you're one of those types of people who thinks that just because they do community work it gives them the right be berate people like you have done in this thread.

And don't say that you have gone out and shouted at the people who put animals in shelters, because there are so many people that you'd be shouting at them while I type this. Dogs being in shelters is a fact of life. That's why there are shelters. DOGS DIE. That's the way the circle goes. Yes, it's sad that they have to be put to sleep because of some idiot who got caught up in the moment, but so what. If you spend so much time in a shelter as you have said, you would learn that it's part of the world.

I don't understand why you're trying to preach to people that we need to adopt dogs from the shelter when the economy is so bad that people who normally do adopt have stopped.

You may claim that you don't care what people think of you, but the cold hard fact is you're a human being. Unless you're a psychopath, which I doubt you are, you care.

Honestly, I'm so tired of hearing about dogs in shelters. I want to hear more about the reptiles that are abused for YEARS on end. But of course, we have idiots like you who think that just because dogs are furry and cuddly they should make headlines. (I'm not trying to say that we should forget about the dogs, I just think it's already a well known fact and it's being beaten into the ground while other animals are being overlooked.)

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,

Whatever else I am - I am still a member of the site Matt.

Was I supposed to quietly watch someone lie and say nothing about it?

Or should I only say something if it isn't the staff they are lying about?

What, exactly, do you think I should be doing in these areas and why?

What about my above post don't you agree with? You never know I might end up agreeing with you.


dr del

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The part that I found chode-ey is that I personally believe you went down to his level by talking down to him as if he was a mind challenged child.

I agree with you that the information he spilled about the rep points was largely incorrect.

Later, Matt

So it is perfectly ok for Jason to breed his dog, back to back in a year b/c hey he is doing a great job finding mutts homes for now? :bow: I would be just as pissed if the dog was a titled champion.

Who cares about the dog or her health, we shouldn't be rude, we don't want to offend someone. Speaks volumes about personalities that they think this is ok in any shape or form. And rescue people are going to be upset by this, we deal with the fall out on a daily basis. It makes us angry, it makes us bawl our eyes out. Mostly, it makes us like animals alot more than humans.

Let the thread die and take it to the QT room.

In case you havent noticed snake morphs are MUTTS as well. This can go back and forth and this thread is NOT where it belongs anymore.

Take it elsewhere:colbert:

It's not the fact that it is mutts (if you can't read) it is about the fact that it is UNHEALTHY for his female.

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Originally Posted by catawhat75

It's not the fact that it is mutts (if you can't read) it is about the fact that it is UNHEALTHY for his female.

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This thread was more about breeding MUTTS adding to the population of dogs. Health wasn't brought up until certain ppl got rude when challenged.

Bottom line its his dog and he can do what he feels is in her best interest, just like we do with out pets. Simple as that.

Oh but we can bash people for not taking care of their snakes the right way? Excccuuse me. So sorry! Well, if he can take care of (ha!) his dog any way he sees fit, then there is no reason people should get jumped on for doing other stupid things and not doing right by their animals. Makes perfect sense to me. Its not a reptile so who cares. :rolleyes:

You can argue all you want RESPECTFULLY. OP not once disrespected anyone here in this thread yet many felt the need to make an ass out of them selves over something they cant do squat about. Just DROP IT already

Why don't you follow your own advise?

And as for something I feel passionately about, when I see something that is detrimental to an animal, I am going to speak up. It is obvious that Jason loves his dog, but he should be concerned about her health and the puppies. It's not only Jason I have the issue with, it's alot of those who have posted in this thread.

Awwww! Did I chafe somebody the wrong way again? Welcome to my world. I have to fight against tons of idiotic, irresponsible dog breeders and their supporters every day. Might as well make some people feel the same way as me.
Elise- If you didn't read the whole thread then STFU! You obviously didn't read the part where Jason has bred this dog twice within less than a 7 month period. If that still sounds like a responsible breeder to you then you are an idiot. I want somebody (preferrably Jyson) to show me where it says that it's healthy for a dog to be bred that often. Heck, good luck finding something that says it's healthy to breed a dog at all.

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Originally Posted by catawhat75

Why don't you follow your own advise?

And as for something I feel passionately about, when I see something that is detrimental to an animal, I am going to speak up. It is obvious that Jason loves his dog, but he should be concerned about her health and the puppies. It's not only Jason I have the issue with, it's alot of those who have posted in this thread.

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Please show where i was rude to anyone or pointed fingers at anyone. I stated my facts about shelters and breeders and thats it. Everyone else as gone on and on about populations of dogs in a rude disrespectful way. You and many others can get your point across with out being rude to anyone.

Meant the drop it part, not the rude part. My bad.
But it does piss me off and while 99% of the time I can remain civil or just stick to the facts, this is something that has gone on before. Heard the I won't breed her again before. Just like ignorance against reptiles hit most of our buttons, this one hits mine (and several others).

While it is his right to do as he pleases, it is not fair to that dog. Bottom line.

Since when has "fair" had anything to do with legality? It is his animal. Bottom line.

You can try to educate someone, but you can not control their actions. Getting bent out of shape about it and berating someone does not actually do anything. It might make you feel better, but it isn't going to change the situation at hand.
I agree that there are too many animals in shelters. Just like I agree that there are too many babies born into bad situations. It is irritating, but it just doesn't pay to get worked up over it. You end up just making yourself look bad.

And in my mind, those that say well it's his animal, we shouldn't care- look bad.

Not getting worked up about it and ignoring the problem sounds like a great idea. Why don't we do that with all the drama going on about loosing our snakes. Heck, BPs aren't on the chopping block, why should I care? But I do, and I fight because it is the right thing to do, because I don't want them coming after other animals next.

In fact, why don't we ignore everything and let people do as they please? Who needs accountability, to be responsible, to do the right thing?

No wonder most people think so poorly of the "reptile freaks"....

Brook, I know this is something you are passionate about, and I can respect that, but I really do not see Jason as some beast.

I say this not because I am sticking up for a friend, but rather I know him well... as a lover of his animals. I know Jason and his family have rehabbed many animals that i love (horses being one, and an animal that is NOT cheap to take on).

I have had animals that go in and out of heat with no chance of spaying in between, funny thing about animals, we cannot control that all the time, can we?

I once had a cat that was unspayable for close to two years... so blanket assumptions do not sit well with me (and yes, I have made MORE than my share over the years).

Conversely, I do not think that people need to address every assumption made about them. I think Jason has been very dignified in this thread, and I do commend him for that.

This is something I have seen so many times come up, that I can not even count. Everytime someone breeds a dog, the rescuers come out to voice their opinions. As someone that has invested undue time, money, and resources in rehabbing sick and dying snakes/reptiles I can relate.

But to draw a comparison between those that adopt a new pup and those that will adopt a rescue/shelter dog is not even close to being congruent. Even as someone that breeds reptiles I know that.

As people that breed animals we accept a very heavy price for what we can and cannot control. We safeguard as much as we can and we hope for the best, because we love this/these hobbies and our animals, but it is NOT failproof and we also accept a huge degree for what we cannot control.

Everytime I hold a burned and scarred snake I do not blame the breeder, I look to the person that had that animal and subjected it to such immense negligience. I focus my attention on educating new keepers, and teaching others how to buy, evaluate and invest responsibly. And yes... if you are going to be caring for an animal for 5-40 years, they are an investment.

Do we blame those that pass by an *inferior* animal. Never.

Yet we champion those that purchase purebred genetically weak progeny? It does not make sense to me. I am not saying that in any way to be difficult, I truly have never grasped that analogy. If you want genetically suscepticle (sp?) animals look no further than any purebred dog show for a never-ending list of animals with deep-rooted genetic inbred defects.

Fluctuating patella anyone? (to name just one). Shall we stop breeding the dogs entirely since it is such a high occurrence? (mark my vote as YES) Anyone breeding them is both negligent and grossly incompetent... i mean, regardless of how many stellar examples of the breed that are produced right?

Where do you think all those PUREBREDS are going when they are not fit for the ring? Yep, to your shelters and your inexperienced owners, who then saddle bills of THOUSANDS to fix the PURE breeding that is so cachet.

If a dog cannot even clean its own eyes without my help, then yeah... :confuzd:

I hope this response is as ambivalent as I feel. We all have an animal that inspires us to fight for them, and mine are snakes, yours is dogs.

Respectfully,
Bruce (AKA loftlizard)

P.S: I may not be around much (at all) but RZ AKA "the green screen" was where I learned to care for my beloved Ash, and I will always pay that forward.

Bruce, that was a very well thought out and worded response.

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Originally Posted by catawhat75

Bruce, that was a very well thought out and worded response.

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Thank you for that... I hesitate these days to post as I truly lack the time or energy to follow threads to completions (AKA death).

If I have learned nothing in my years online it is that there are many ways to raise *insert animal of passion here*...

Bruce

The point that cata and Brook are trying to make is that breeding a female dog more then once a year can be VERY harmful to her health. We have already established our opinions on breeding in general when there are dogs to be adopted at shelters. I think that is clear. I also agree with Bruce on the fact that purebreds can be genetic trainwrecks, and its a sad thing to see. I work at a vet clinic and I cant tell you the countless numbers of golden retrievers I see with severe hip problems, and bulldogs who cant breathe because of the structure of their brachycephalic noses, etc. But I think all these problems stem from the fact that dogs are overpopulated, over-bred, and inbred. So why keep breeding then? Why make more dogs to contribute to the problem? It makes no sense to me. Go to a shelter, and save a life. Its worth it.

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/g...hind_fence.jpg

I am sad that people are being rude, it does negate the facts, and I hope I did not come across rude, i tried to come off as passionate and put that into how important the facts that presented are.

Do you really think that the millions of dogs produced every year by irresponsible breeders who end up dying in shelters are a result of pet owners who mistreat their animals? Yah some are. But the biggest problem out there are the people who think they have a great pet and want to see little offspring running around. Im glad the OP is good to his pets, maybe he can open his eyes to the huge overpopulation problem of dogs and realize that not breeding like he is, would be the kindest thing he can do for dogs.

Yep some purebreds have genetic problems. But do you really think that breeding mutts isnt passing off those same genetic traits? Just because it is a mixed breed doesnt mean it wont inherit some of the bad genetics of the breeds it is a mix of. This is also why it is very important for a breeder to test their dogs to weed out those genetic traits. Responsible breeders do this, but unfortunately the irresponsible breeders vastly outnumber responsible ones and so breeds are abound with these horrible problems

Breeding a dog back to back is pretty awful. It is extremely hard on their bodies.

Wow.....ok, I obviously was not very clear the first time.
I did not mean we should ignore a problem. If you are truly passionate about changing something go for it. Find out ways to get better legislation in order. Education also plays a big role in all of this. There are other ways to deal with issues than making yourself look bad. That really doesn't do anyone much good does it?
Going around an bashing people on forums can make people tune you out pretty quickly. Maybe you could just be more tactful about how you are expressing your facts and opinions. This may perhaps in turn make people more receptive. Besides, in my honest opinion, I think the more people you can rally together the better off the cause will be. If you go around scaring people off you may end up very alone.

Hi,

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

The part that I found chode-ey is that I personally believe you went down to his level by talking down to him as if he was a mind challenged child.

I agree with you that the information he spilled about the rep points was largely incorrect.

Later, Matt

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Your right - starting or inflaming a situation then lying/ playing the victim card is one of my hot button topics and I should have taken that into consideration and been less insulting in my reply.

But please don't use the word "chode-ey" - urban dictionary is not age restricted. :rolleyes:

There are plenty of words in the english language you could have used that don't skirt quite so close to the infractable. :please:


dr del

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Originally Posted by aaramire

I also agree with Bruce on the fact that purebreds can be genetic trainwrecks, and its a sad thing to see.

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This is true. However, *responsible* breeders are working very hard to change this. Not only are responsible breeders breeding away from health problems, but they are active in their breed clubs and collectively donate thousans, even millions of dollars to help fund research to make ALL dogs healthier. Our breed club (the DPCA) is reknowned for making health a priority, and supporting research that is trying to make all dogs healthier.

How can a litter whose pedigree has never been health-tested be assumed to be healthy?

If the OP had done full health testing, I wouldn't have an issue with it. But as it stands, the parents of this litter have no health testing. And that truly is sad.

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Originally Posted by Bruce Whitehead

...we cannot control that all the time, can we?

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Yes, we can - it's called responsible ownership. I've had intact dogs in my house for more than 7 years, and not once have we had an accident. It's actually not very hard.

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Originally Posted by Bruce Whitehead

Fluctuating patella anyone? (to name just one).

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Actually, it's luxating patellas - and responsible breeders are trying very hard to eliminate it. BYBs are not.

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Originally Posted by Bruce Whitehead

Where do you think all those PUREBREDS are going when they are not fit for the ring? Yep, to your shelters and your inexperienced owners

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False. Pet quality puppies go to pet homes. Responsible breeders do everything in their power to prevent their dogs from being dumped in shelters, and when one does end up in a shelter they pull them. Responsible breeders take back any dog, at any time. Responsibly bred puppies come with contracts, and buyers are thoroughly screened. I would be curious to know what kind of application process the OP has for his puppies. Probably nothing near the requirements of responsible breeders.