My GOD! Do prices usually slice in half every year!!!!

I think some of it has to do with the economy......but i think it is more to do with people getting into snakes as a business and mass producing snakes and just breeding a whole bunch of co doms and doms with a whole bunch of normals.........and thats why he doms/ co doms are dropping faster.....and we all know ressecive take a little more $ and time to "mass produce"......

That is where selective breeding comes in and selective buying come in........
even if i see a pastel for $100 im not going to jump on it......i want a quality animal! so i may enjoy its beauty and if i decide to breed it with another nice high quality animal i have high quality babies..........

not saying peoples animals are low quality but i see a lot of low quality stuff out there and that is one reason they are cheaper...........and that may be what someone may like as a pet.........but when some one buys that animal and mass produces that low quality animal to a bunch of normals and floods the market with low quality babies just to make a quick buck and lowers the market cause now he has 30+ low end pastels...........and he doesnt want to keep them cause its to much $ and space for him the are the people you shouldent buy from.................
and i have no respect for that kind of person...........
if your a hobbiest and doing it for pleasure and selling beind closed door......fine...

my 2 cents! flame on if you want ...............:crash:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by phunkyone808

I think some of it has to do with the economy......but i think it is more to do with people getting into snakes as a business and mass producing snakes and just breeding a whole bunch of co doms and doms with a whole bunch of normals.........and thats why he doms/ co doms are dropping faster.....and we all know ressecive take a little more $ and time to "mass produce"......

That is where selective breeding comes in and selective buying come in........
even if i see a pastel for $100 im not going to jump on it......i want a quality animal! so i may enjoy its beauty and if i decide to breed it with another nice high quality animal i have high quality babies..........

not saying peoples animals are low quality but i see a lot of low quality stuff out there and that is one reason they are cheaper...........and that may be what someone may like as a pet.........but when some one buys that animal and mass produces that low quality animal to a bunch of normals and floods the market with low quality babies just to make a quick buck and lowers the market cause now he has 30+ low end pastels...........and he doesnt want to keep them cause its to much $ and space for him the are the people you shouldent buy from.................
and i have no respect for that kind of person...........
if your a hobbiest and doing it for pleasure and selling beind closed door......fine...

my 2 cents! flame on if you want ...............:crash:

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Sooooooooo true. At Daytona I saw pastels that I needed to read the actual sign saying they were pastels to tell the difference between them and normals.


But when I bought my pastels (a 200g insanely high yellow male and a puny little female that was pretty dull that was thrown in to the deal) and she remained kinda dull for a few months. But about a month or two ago she shed and was immediately at least as bright as my male with even better blushing! I was really surprised not to mention incredibly pleased. Now I just can't wait to make some supers with those two.

So I guess you can't always tell how they will turn out, but codoms really are being exploited and a grading system is definitely going to be needed. We as a community can help with that. If the average person looking for a spider, pastel or any other codom knew what a good one was supposed to look like and what a crap mass bred one tended to look like the problem would work it self out. If no one is buying those crappy mass produced codoms people will stop breeding them.

It is a stinky problem though, and I really don't know the best answer.

i understand animals lighten and darken with age....and selling a hatchling is hard to tell the potential .......but i see pastels that look like nice normals.......

but hen you have a person getting into herps or ball pythons or whatever it is.....and buy a low end animal or animals and mass producing and other people getting into this as only as a bussiness and know nothing about these beauties and only see dollar signs.........and dump low end animals and then the next wanna be get rich quick person comes along tries to do the same thing and repeats the process......

I can see a hobbiest or repituble breeders or small breeder selling animals at a different range by grade but having multipule animals for sale at a low price to dump them becuase its only a paycheck to them and have no love for the hobby or animal is not good
i see people all the time asking i want to start a snake breeding bussiness what should i get? do i need racks? not even reading or doing any research those are the ones that just see $$$$$$$
dont get me wrong its good that someone wants to learn and breed but GOOGLE read, research have a plan, its people like that ,that ruin everything

buy a normal and learn first, you buy a bunch of animals ,then find out its not for you then dump your animals.they dont care bout the animals,they dont care bout the herp community they dont care bout nothing but themselves and money!
just like a puppy mill i disagree with those as well!!!!!!!!
i dont really care if anyone gets mad because its the truth and if your offended by it then your guilty of what i say !

so if your going to breed or have a business buy quality!!!!!!!! and breed what you would be able to keep or trade instead of dumping trying to get rich

thats the problem too people think they are going to make mega booku bucks doing this and then they find out they cant...........and start dumping it...........

think if it aint selling hold on to it raise it use it in breeding later sell breeder size animals.......for more $$$$ gain and uphold the respect from other breeders and hobbiest by doing that and bring the market back up..... or stabilize it make sense? yes!

and if you dont have the room or experince you shouldnet be mass breeding..........or even breeding............HAVE A PLAN if it dont sell.......it will help everyone in the long run

every good bussiness had a plan ..........:gj:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by phunkyone808

i understand animals lighten and darken with age....and selling a hatchling is hard to tell the potential .......but i see pastels that look like nice normals.......

but hen you have a person getting into herps or ball pythons or whatever it is.....and buy a low end animal or animals and mass producing and other people getting into this as only as a bussiness and know nothing about these beauties and only see dollar signs.........and dump low end animals and then the next wanna be get rich quick person comes along tries to do the same thing and repeats the process......

I can see a hobbiest or repituble breeders or small breeder selling animals at a different range by grade but having multipule animals for sale at a low price to dump them becuase its only a paycheck to them and have no love for the hobby or animal is not good
i see people all the time asking i want to start a snake breeding bussiness what should i get? do i need racks? not even reading or doing any research those are the ones that just see $$$$$$$
dont get me wrong its good that someone wants to learn and breed but GOOGLE read, research have a plan, its people like that ,that ruin everything

buy a normal and learn first, you buy a bunch of animals ,then find out its not for you then dump your animals.they dont care bout the animals,they dont care bout the herp community they dont care bout nothing but themselves and money!
just like a puppy mill i disagree with those as well!!!!!!!!
i dont really care if anyone gets mad because its the truth and if your offended by it then your guilty of what i say !

so if your going to breed or have a business buy quality!!!!!!!! and breed what you would be able to keep or trade instead of dumping trying to get rich

thats the problem too people think they are going to make mega booku bucks doing this and then they find out they cant...........and start dumping it...........

think if it aint selling hold on to it raise it use it in breeding later sell breeder size animals.......for more $$$$ gain and uphold the respect from other breeders and hobbiest by doing that and bring the market back up..... or stabilize it make sense? yes!

and if you dont have the room or experince you shouldnet be mass breeding..........or even breeding............HAVE A PLAN if it dont sell.......it will help everyone in the long run

every good bussiness had a plan ..........:gj:

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Amen. Good analogy to puppy mills. I really hate breeders who only started because they thought they could make a buck. I am still small time, hope to have a few clutches this year and go from there and I'd be satisfied if I break even or get close to that. I got nice rack systems, good husbandry and I love herps and the community. So sad that some people look at a beautiful piece of living genetic art work and just see $$$$.

i mean if you can make $ to support your hobby or make a few bucks or make it big go ahead but dont think your gonna get rich quick..........this aint for you!

I think there was a time in the ball python market that utterly spoiled people rotten, because I see people saying this all the time: "You can't get rich quick doing this!"

Exactly how QUICK is quick to you guys? You do realize that in any normal investment arena, a 25% return in one year is COMPLETELY INSANE, right? And that's not an unreasonable goal if you purchase the right animals--you could even manage to hit as high as 50%. No, you can't make back the 20 grand you invested in one year (particularly if part of it went to equipment). But you can make it back in 3 or 4 years. The return comes on a 3 to 4 year cycle, which is how long it takes to raise a ball from hatching to breeding. Most people struggling along making just enough to care for the animals are breeding for the enjoyment of the hobby, and there is nothing wrong with that. But if you actually buy in as an investment, YES, you can make it back. It's not guaranteed (but what investment, apart from government bonds, IS?)

Stop scaring off your future customers/competitors by telling them that there's no money in it. That's not true, and you know it. You can't get more people involved in the hobby by shooing them away. If you want the prices to fall more slowly, get people interested in investing in the ball python market. Making it seem unattractive to scare away competitors doesn't WORK for this business. Your competitors ARE your customers.

You're right--no other business IS like this. It's like a big scaly pyramid scheme with a few big names like NERD at the top, and the pet trade at the bottom as a release valve. The more people you can get interested in keeping and breeding balls, the more customers you will have, and the better the prices will hold. I love reptiles, and ball pythons are definitely wonderful animals. The fact that they make great pets is a large part of the reason all of this keeps working the way it does.

Encourage people to get involved. Give them realistic expectations--not discouragement, or overinflated ideas of what's possible. Above all, stop trying to scare off people who look like they might want a 'piece of the action'. Tell them how to do it right, don't tell them not to do it.

i saw grade A mojaves at the westchester show last weekend for 150. jaw dropped considering i paid 650 in 06 for mine and that was deal lol. I have a spider my friend paid 1600 for in 05 and now even as a proven breeder i can only get 400 tops which is why he gave it to me and got into boas instead. it be nice if the market becomes stable but i guess theres too much new stuff coming out and breeders need to move what they have. :hmm:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

I think there was a time in the ball python market that utterly spoiled people rotten, because I see people saying this all the time: "You can't get rich quick doing this!"

Exactly how QUICK is quick to you guys? You do realize that in any normal investment arena, a 25% return in one year is COMPLETELY INSANE, right? And that's not an unreasonable goal if you purchase the right animals--you could even manage to hit as high as 50%. No, you can't make back the 20 grand you invested in one year (particularly if part of it went to equipment). But you can make it back in 3 or 4 years. The return comes on a 3 to 4 year cycle, which is how long it takes to raise a ball from hatching to breeding. Most people struggling along making just enough to care for the animals are breeding for the enjoyment of the hobby, and there is nothing wrong with that. But if you actually buy in as an investment, YES, you can make it back. It's not guaranteed (but what investment, apart from government bonds, IS?)

Stop scaring off your future customers/competitors by telling them that there's no money in it. That's not true, and you know it. You can't get more people involved in the hobby by shooing them away. If you want the prices to fall more slowly, get people interested in investing in the ball python market. Making it seem unattractive to scare away competitors doesn't WORK for this business. Your competitors ARE your customers.

You're right--no other business IS like this. It's like a big scaly pyramid scheme with a few big names like NERD at the top, and the pet trade at the bottom as a release valve. The more people you can get interested in keeping and breeding balls, the more customers you will have, and the better the prices will hold. I love reptiles, and ball pythons are definitely wonderful animals. The fact that they make great pets is a large part of the reason all of this keeps working the way it does.

Encourage people to get involved. Give them realistic expectations--not discouragement, or overinflated ideas of what's possible. Above all, stop trying to scare off people who look like they might want a 'piece of the action'. Tell them how to do it right, don't tell them not to do it.

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Makes alot of sense. great viewpoint.

i never said there is no money in this and im not shooooing anyone away............
i dont think im scaring anyone away......and if i did scare someone away it was a bad business person who never cared anyway.............because if someone was really into it then they would go for it regardless.......what i say.........because they love the animals.........
I think the negativity and bashing here scare away more people then me making a point of people mass producing.............of low quality animals.........
So dont try and make me the bad guy saying im scaring anyone off future customers etc..........
But i can see where your mind set is $$$$$$$$$$$............you care bout future customers............not someone to share our hobby with........share our love our passion......

there is money to be made and if you can score a cheap animal go for .........and if you want to dive in head first into something you know nothing about go for it..............

If you want to join a awsome community of people.......Welcome,If you want to get into a rare hobby and in time can pay for itself Welcome, If you want to try and make a good business and have fun doing someting you love Welcome

i have no means of scaring anyone.........but in any aspect mammal or reptile,
research what your getting into,hubandry,diet,breeding etc....whatever your intentions are for the animal.take a few days months and research........

IM only discouraging mass producing and irresponsability!:colbert:

so your saying if we were talking dogs here and someone said..........hey i got 10 grand where should i start...........i have no clue about raising dogs,breeding dogs,have no sufficent space on housing them, but hey give me a pair of silky terriers, a pair of pitbulls, a pair of etc etc.........
i let them go to town mass produce them and just dump em all over sell em at rock bottem prices just to keep em moving and just keep letting breed ...............and cycle it over and over how responsable is that?????????????
That is why real pet fanciest have contract when selling the animals as opposed to puppy mills...........

im sure any NEW enthusiest can understand that and agree and is not being scared off? i said if you want to do it as a business have a plan........

there is money to be made fun to be had and ne morphs to be found...............so by all means have some fun and join us...........!

Oh, please. Get over the Either/Or mindset. I love reptiles. I chose to turn it into a business, and as a business it's going to make $$$, or it would be a failure. There is nothing wrong with breeding reptiles as a business. It doesn't have to be 'just a hobby' and breeding snakes for ONLY the fun of it doesn't make a person morally superior. A person isn't automatically consigned to the ranks of uncaring user if they are running a business to make money.

Yes, I care about future customers. Any business person SHOULD. I care that they get healthy and well-bred animals, and that they come into owning ball pythons--whether as a pet, a hobby, or a business--knowing what to expect, with full knowledge and all the tools they need to be successful. I also don't want them to think that if they're considering making it a business--even a small hobby business--that they don't have a chance of success. Or that there is something wrong with them if they actually consider money.

When did making money turn into a BAD THING? I must have missed the memo on that.

A bad businessperson does not factor in routine expenses. They don't make a business plan. They don't care for the welfare of the animals beyond their monetary value. They plan no more than 1 year in advance.

A good businessperson sets aside a budget not only for routine cleaning and care, but also for veterinary expenses, extra food for any snakes that don't sell right away, and all the little bits and pieces that are necessary to keep snakes not just healthy but thriving. Because superior animals are going to bring a superior price--and, oh yeah--it's the right thing to do. Reputation is important, as well as how well you sleep at night.

So all this talk about business breeders not caring for the animals is complete bull pocky. If they're going to actually be around a while, they had darned well better care for each and every one of them. It's a stupid business to get into if you don't love the animals, and if people think you don't love them, you're not going to be successful at it.

"Mass producing" is the only way to breed reptiles and make a living at it. And there is nothing wrong with it at all. NERD and BHB certainly mass produce ball pythons. I don't see anyone faulting them for it, because they do it right. These aren't dogs or cats. The moment there are not other breeders waiting to buy them up, their prices will fall, and they'll enter into the pet trade. Most purebred Dogs and cats are in the pet trade from the moment they're born.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

...
Yes, I care about future customers. Any business person SHOULD. I care that they get healthy and well-bred animals, and that they come into owning ball pythons--whether as a pet, a hobby, or a business--knowing what to expect, with full knowledge and all the tools they need to be successful. I also don't want them to think that if they're considering making it a business--even a small hobby business--that they don't have a chance of success. Or that there is something wrong with them if they actually consider money.

When did making money turn into a BAD THING? I must have missed the memo on that.

A bad businessperson does not factor in routine expenses. They don't make a business plan. They don't care for the welfare of the animals beyond their monetary value. They plan no more than 1 year in advance.

A good businessperson sets aside a budget not only for routine cleaning and care, but also for veterinary expenses, extra food for any snakes that don't sell right away, and all the little bits and pieces that are necessary to keep snakes not just healthy but thriving. Because superior animals are going to bring a superior price--and, oh yeah--it's the right thing to do. Reputation is important, as well as how well you sleep at night.

So all this talk about business breeders not caring for the animals is complete bull pocky. If they're going to actually be around a while, they had darned well better care for each and every one of them. It's a stupid business to get into if you don't love the animals, and if people think you don't love them, you're not going to be successful at it.

"Mass producing" is the only way to breed reptiles and make a living at it. And there is nothing wrong with it at all. NERD and BHB certainly mass produce ball pythons. I don't see anyone faulting them for it, because they do it right. These aren't dogs or cats. The moment there are not other breeders waiting to buy them up, their prices will fall, and they'll enter into the pet trade. Most purebred Dogs and cats are in the pet trade from the moment they're born.

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I quite enjoy your posts in this thread! I'm 10 years in & I believe we're just getting started. :gj:

I believe you are spot on about this!

We got people selling who don't quarantine properly or who kill healthy snakes, while the rest of us will survive beyond their brief time, folks NEED to vote with their dollars. They need to be okay with paying a tad more for a superior example of a morph & producers need to feel they can ask what an animal is worth. So while I agree that eventually this area will correct itself, it will require the buyer to care where they get their animals.

IMHO there's room for both Mass & Selective producers. Selective breeding is ultimately about smaller numbers. I could have bred every breeder female that I had last season, but I only bred under half that why? Not just the economy, because of the quality of the offspring. The project has to match the snake. Some pairings are just better than others. For those that "mass-produce" they are more likely to get graded results, IMHO go smaller with best examples of the morphs that you can get & it will show in the offspring. I not only care about doing the best by my animals, I care about improving the the morphs if I can. It drives my choices, it narrows my producion... I do hope it will also one day be something I will be known for. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

"Mass producing" is the only way to breed reptiles and make a living at it. And there is nothing wrong with it at all. NERD and BHB certainly mass produce ball pythons. I don't see anyone faulting them for it, because they do it right. These aren't dogs or cats. The moment there are not other breeders waiting to buy them up, their prices will fall, and they'll enter into the pet trade. Most purebred Dogs and cats are in the pet trade from the moment they're born.

---

I read people writing about mass producing, and I'd like someone to define what they consider mass producing. I've been to NERD 2 x now, for a full week each time, helped out with cleaning and feeding of snakes, cleaning and feeding of rats.

I don't consider Kevin a mass producer by any stretch of the imagination. His incubator sits in his living room - he doesn't have a walk in incubator. It's a little wider than a full sized refrigerator. He has one room of breeders, that's not huge.

Kevin is one of the "big breeders" who is truly a hobbiest at heart. You can see the excitement and joy and twinkle in his eye when he talks about his animals and his pet projects.

I'd say that Kevin is more into pushing the envelope in the endless combo possibilities, not into mass producing a bunch of base morphs.

I've never been to Brian's, but I've seen his videos (hasn't everyone) and as far as volume of animals, he's HUGE compared to NERD's collection. BUT, Brian is just as passionate about his animals. Anyone who has ever taken time to talk to him on the phone or in person can hear his love OOZING out of him.

I agree with what WingedWolf said - why is making money at something you love considered a bad thing? If someone was in love with surfing, started a surf shop that went on to make millions, are they less in love with surfing? Have they "sold out" on their love of surfing? Why is with breeding reptiles, some people feel that they're not in it for the love of the animals? Yes, there certainly are some people in this industry that see the animals only as a commodity (see the culling thread above), but not all.

I'll never make a living at doing this, it's HARD work - it's a 7 day a week job, with no time off. But if I can make a little money to help fund and support my hobby and help me to acquire more animals that I'd like to have, then it's a win for me. But I will NOT disrespect the larger breeders who put in the blood, sweat and tears to get this hobby and excitement level to where it is today by suggesting that they don't love what they're doing, when in my limited interactions with them, I've found the opposite to be true.

Love what you do, and you'll never work a day in your life. Kudos to them for doing JUST that!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

Oh, please. Get over the Either/Or mindset. I love reptiles. I chose to turn it into a business, and as a business it's going to make $$$, or it would be a failure. There is nothing wrong with breeding reptiles as a business. It doesn't have to be 'just a hobby' and breeding snakes for ONLY the fun of it doesn't make a person morally superior. A person isn't automatically consigned to the ranks of uncaring user if they are running a business to make money.

Yes, I care about future customers. Any business person SHOULD. I care that they get healthy and well-bred animals, and that they come into owning ball pythons--whether as a pet, a hobby, or a business--knowing what to expect, with full knowledge and all the tools they need to be successful. I also don't want them to think that if they're considering making it a business--even a small hobby business--that they don't have a chance of success. Or that there is something wrong with them if they actually consider money.

When did making money turn into a BAD THING? I must have missed the memo on that.

A bad businessperson does not factor in routine expenses. They don't make a business plan. They don't care for the welfare of the animals beyond their monetary value. They plan no more than 1 year in advance.

A good businessperson sets aside a budget not only for routine cleaning and care, but also for veterinary expenses, extra food for any snakes that don't sell right away, and all the little bits and pieces that are necessary to keep snakes not just healthy but thriving. Because superior animals are going to bring a superior price--and, oh yeah--it's the right thing to do. Reputation is important, as well as how well you sleep at night.

So all this talk about business breeders not caring for the animals is complete bull pocky. If they're going to actually be around a while, they had darned well better care for each and every one of them. It's a stupid business to get into if you don't love the animals, and if people think you don't love them, you're not going to be successful at it.

"Mass producing" is the only way to breed reptiles and make a living at it. And there is nothing wrong with it at all. NERD and BHB certainly mass produce ball pythons. I don't see anyone faulting them for it, because they do it right. These aren't dogs or cats. The moment there are not other breeders waiting to buy them up, their prices will fall, and they'll enter into the pet trade. Most purebred Dogs and cats are in the pet trade from the moment they're born.

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Apperantly you are getting offened by something...............im am talking about people JUMPING into this with ZERO knowledge spending THOUSANDS OF $$$$$ and then dumping the animals when they find out its not for them.....IM talking bout people who buy a low quality animals and breeding it to 10 female normals and produce multiple low quality animals.and dump them for cheap cause they cannot properly house them........ ie

UNLESS THIS IS YOU...dont get offended.............

NERD AND BHB produce on large quantities and have THE KNOWLEDGE AND FACILITY to care for them.........not dump the animals at lower prices..........cause they have the room to properly care for them.......

i never said any bad about it being a business.........i respect i good business person and also hobbiest and small and big breeder.........

so dont go putting words in my mouth.......

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

I read people writing about mass producing, and I'd like someone to define what they consider mass producing. I've been to NERD 2 x now, for a full week each time, helped out with cleaning and feeding of snakes, cleaning and feeding of rats.


I agree with what WingedWolf said - why is making money at something you love considered a bad thing? If someone was in love with surfing, started a surf shop that went on to make millions, are they less in love with surfing? Have they "sold out" on their love of surfing? Why is with breeding reptiles, some people feel that they're not in it for the love of the animals? Yes, there certainly are some people in this industry that see the animals only as a commodity (see the culling thread above), but not all.


Love what you do, and you'll never work a day in your life. Kudos to them for doing JUST that!

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when did i say making money is a bad thing??????????

i said if you can go for it!!!!!!!!!

you guys need to stop twisting around what i say..............................

im done good luck everyone this season!!!!!!!!

The people that irk me are the ones that care less about their hobby and more about making money or just making the money to pay for the hobby itself. These are the individuals most likely to drop the prices first (out of desperation), while the people who really care about the hobby can stand to wait a year or even more before seeing their snake sold. It's not that making the money is bad, it's just that caring more about your profits and less about the hobby CAN turn out bad (not will, but can).

But that's just my views. And why is this becoming a price debate, I thought this topic started out as asking if the price drops this much every year and thus discussing the prices in the past and current prices.

If you want to rant about the price drops there was a topic last week about that very thing, and it went off topic after emotions started to run high and a handful of us decided to drag the topic elsewhere before we had e-violence. Which is the problem with topics about price, everyone has their opinions on it and everyone seems to want to throw people with differing views in a volcano.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by phunkyone808

when did i say making money is a bad thing??????????

i said if you can go for it!!!!!!!!!

you guys need to stop twisting around what i say..............................

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Did I quote you? How did I possibly twist what you said when I wasn't even addressing you?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Did I quote you? How did I possibly twist what you said when I wasn't even addressing you?

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sorry wrong person im done with this thread!.........have a nice day

Morph prices are going down... time to start producing the combo morphs, that's where the money will be in the coming years!

As fewer new morphs are being introduced everybody will be springing for the new triple and quadruple gene animals as these are what differentiate a nice breeding collection from an awesome one.

A person with 30-50 multi gene carriers can make a lot more money than somebody with 100 pastels ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LizardofOzz

Morph prices are going down... time to start producing the combo morphs, that's where the money will be in the coming years!

As fewer new morphs are being introduced everybody will be springing for the new triple and quadruple gene animals as these are what differentiate a nice breeding collection from an awesome one.

A person with 30-50 multi gene carriers can make a lot more money than somebody with 100 pastels ;)

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i agree

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

It's all good if pieds get to be 250.00 I'll just make 250 of them. :D easy fix. :D as pirces go down production goes up..

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Just what we need.....

The prices for basic morphs will continue to drop since people want designer morphs now, and more and more complex ones at that.

The age of the morph, whether it's recessive/dom/codom/super, and the prevalence of it in designer morphs all play huge roles in the cost. Pastels are in everything, thus they have practically already dropped to the cost of a normal ball python, while pieds are only in a few things, thus they are still quite expensive.

It's one thing to say "I only deal with high quality animals", it's another to live it. You can breed a "high quality" animal to another "high quality" animal and still end up with some "low quality" babies.

This is where the hypocrisy shows through. How many of the self proclaimed "high quality only" breeders destroy the "low quality" animals they produce??

I'm pretty sure most of them decrease the price and try and sell it as a "low quality" example of a particular morph.

its all going down hill right now. i just sit back and wait to see a crazy deal and jump on it. i got an 08 high white mojave male for $180 shipped about 3 weeks ago and a week befor that i got an 09 male lemon pastel and a 1800g female for 140 shipped its getting crazy. i have seen a whole clutch of 100 het albino 3.5 with photo id for 250 shipped....

Hi,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JayCee

This is where the hypocrisy shows through. How many of the self proclaimed "high quality only" breeders destroy the "low quality" animals they produce??

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If they did I would call them a moraly vacuous boil on the face of the industry.

Not killing a healthy animal does not make you a hypocrite - it does, however,
mean that you aren't a horrible person who should be banned from keeping animals. Hope that clears that up for ya. :gj:


dr del

Your all looking at this wrong ! I believe the economy has a lot to do with all the falling prices ! Nobody is really spending money on anything right now. I feel bad for all the big breeders that have a huge overhead it has to be a tough time for them and that might be one reason for the drops to. But it all comes back to the economy that we have at this time in our lives ! ! ! ! !

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Originally Posted by JayCee

It's one thing to say "I only deal with high quality animals", it's another to live it. You can breed a "high quality" animal to another "high quality" animal and still end up with some "low quality" babies.

This is where the hypocrisy shows through. How many of the self proclaimed "high quality only" breeders destroy the "low quality" animals they produce??

I'm pretty sure most of them decrease the price and try and sell it as a "low quality" example of a particular morph.

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Of course, any breeder, even one aiming for quality, is gonna have some ugly animals pop up. And I would hope that he or she would sell those for less, and be upfront about the fact that it's lower quality, as opposed to trying to pass it off as high quality just because they "only deal with high quality animals." That isn't hypocrisy; that's being honest!

The difference is that their goal is to produce high-quality animals. Not just XX morph, or XX breed (in the case of dogs/cats/rabbits/etc..), but a really good, stunning example of XX morph or breed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

LOL I paid that for a single male :D

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wow i got a pastel from a local pet shop for 50 bux!! they sold it off as a normal because he bought it as one that got mixed up in the clutch heh!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Serpent_Nirvana

Of course, any breeder, even one aiming for quality, is gonna have some ugly animals pop up. And I would hope that he or she would sell those for less, and be upfront about the fact that it's lower quality, as opposed to trying to pass it off as high quality just because they "only deal with high quality animals." That isn't hypocrisy; that's being honest!

The difference is that their goal is to produce high-quality animals. Not just XX morph, or XX breed (in the case of dogs/cats/rabbits/etc..), but a really good, stunning example of XX morph or breed.

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that isnt whats going on they are still trying to sell them for the same price. alot of breeders have been trying to unload way below quality animals just go look at the trades section of KS.

this was also going on last time the prices dropped alot

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

as pirces go down production goes up..

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Yeah but thats the whole reason why prices are dropping. Supply vs Demand. Supply goes up prices drop.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sg1trogdor

Yeah but thats the whole reason why prices are dropping. Supply vs Demand. Supply goes up prices drop.

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and this:

Among the major worker groups, the unemployment rates for adult men
(10.1 percent), whites (8.9 percent), and Hispanics (13.0 percent) rose
in August. The jobless rates for adult women (7.6 percent), teenagers
(25.5 percent), and blacks (15.1 percent) were little changed over the
month. The unemployment rate for Asians was 7.5 percent, not seasonally
adjusted. (See tables A-1, A-2, and A-3.)

(copyed from http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm )

might i ask just how many snakes are sold to which group of ppl?