Sugar and Calico Question

Right....


The sugars look melted to me....while the calicos....look speckled and jagged

IMO they are pretty much the same. Like lesser and butter and black pastel and cinni

each snake of the morph is different
find a picture of a dark sugar and compare it to the calico you posted and they will look virtually the same
find a light calico and compare to the light sugar you posted and they will look similar too

as far as the white flecking on the sides it all varies from snake to snake, they both will have some with high and low white. One morph may have more high or low white but i dont think that matters much
to me its kinda like saying a high white spider is a different morph than a low white

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Originally Posted by matt71915

IMO they are pretty much the same. Like lesser and butter and black pastel and cinni

each snake of the morph is different
find a picture of a dark sugar and compare it to the calico you posted and they will look virtually the same
find a light calico and compare to the light sugar you posted and they will look similar too

as far as the white flecking on the sides it all varies from snake to snake, they both will have some with high and low white. One morph may have more high or low white but i dont think that matters much
to me its kinda like saying a high white spider is a different morph than a low white

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If the high white had black tipping around every scale, and the low white did not, I would probably call it a different morph as well.

yeah, but i mean as far as it matters to me, i think they are the same thing. Will I call them all a calico or a sugar? probably not I would call it what it's labeled

the snake keeper is working with both lines. they have noticed differences. sugars tend to be smaller and less per clutch. sugars also produce more black backs which includes the siblings which are NOT sugars. the sugar pastels tend to look different than calico pastels. when I refer to sugars i am speaking of the Rene Valentin line from France.

Kyle,
I assume that is your snake, so I will say congrats on the very nice Valentin line Sugar you have. I refer to my animal as a Sugar, because that is what Tracy called it. I believe there is a difference in the VPI line and the Calicos. I also believe that in most cases, you could pick the Valentin line animal out of a group.

As for the super form, it was done by Morton Wright last year. He bred a VPI line Sugar (acyually the original import if I'm not mistaken) to a Calico and produced what they believe is the Super. Further breeding will prove that or not.

Personally I think they are different names of a similar mutation and Mortons snake seems to prove that thought.

At the end of the day the white seems to come out randomly like in a pied so the animals vary tremendously from one to the other as well as from line to line and also when mixed into other morphs so who knows?

I got a girl TSK line calico a while back banking on the super form and was very excited when Morton said he produced a super. I also hear some folks say Morton's is not a super, I hope they are wrong but time will tell. I think the morph has tremendous potential.

I would like to make the super black pastel super calico, that should have some serious contrast!

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Originally Posted by Patrick Long

Right....


The sugars look melted to me....while the calicos....look speckled and jagged

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X2

The Calicos have sort of a pixelated look, almost like somebody sprayed them with white paint in microsoft paint.

The trick is to take a super, breed it to a normal, and see if you get intergraded-looking animals (or animals that all basically look like each other), or distinct sugars and calicos.

The same is true of butter/lesser, and cinnamon/black pastel. If you get some of each, rather than intergrades, they are different.

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Originally Posted by muddoc

Kyle,
I assume that is your snake, so I will say congrats on the very nice Valentin line Sugar you have. I refer to my animal as a Sugar, because that is what Tracy called it. I believe there is a difference in the VPI line and the Calicos. I also believe that in most cases, you could pick the Valentin line animal out of a group.

As for the super form, it was done by Morton Wright last year. He bred a VPI line Sugar (acyually the original import if I'm not mistaken) to a Calico and produced what they believe is the Super. Further breeding will prove that or not.

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Tim,

best of luck with your Sugar. these are all amazing morphs be it calico or sugar. for now I am in the mind set that the Sugar and Calico are not the same morph in regards to the valentin line and most of the american calico lines. I understand that I could be wrong, ;) that would not be the first time, :oops: when I inquired about all of the lines and so forth before I went with the Valentin line it seemed to me that "they looked" different to me. the Pastel combos look different to me also. I am speaking of pattern and color. I asked TSK what they thought from their own experience with both lines "from two different sources". TSK expalined some differences that they had noticed. To them it did not matter one way or the other but they kept noticing differences. Sugars from the Valentin line were smaller as hatchlings than Calicos. Sugars tended to be less per clutch. the Valentin line produced black backs in each Sugar clutch which not only included the Sugars but also the non sugar siblings. time will tell. I dont think that one is better than the other but I do think they are different. the Sugars tend to be more extreme in pattern and color more often than most calico lines. then again, what do I know? :)