ribbon snake

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Originally Posted by TylerxToxic

they're not venomous.

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You sure about that?

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

You sure about that?

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I'm sure they're not lol. I just made a typo, and happens a lot because I type too fast.

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Originally Posted by Neal

I'm sure they're not lol. I just made a typo, and happens a lot because I type too fast.

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I think you were right the first time.........

Oh, come on, let's not get into that discussion.

Sure, some people have had bad reactions to Thamnophis bites. I don't think they're venomous... I think those people just happen to be allergic to some saliva. We all know saliva has enzymes in it, and that doesn't make a snake venomous.

Well if you want to consider that, I know about that but i mean actually considered venomous. They're not considered venomous, like dutch said, an allergic reaction to some saliva.

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

Oh, come on, let's not get into that discussion.

Sure, some people have had bad reactions to Thamnophis bites. I don't think they're venomous... I think those people just happen to be allergic to some saliva. We all know saliva has enzymes in it, and that doesn't make a snake venomous.

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Thamnophis are venomous. When it comes to venom, I read Fry's work. If Fry says they are venomous and posts the research to back it up (which he does and has) - I go with him. Beats getting my info from Wikipedia. Or shopping for opinions on the forums.................

http://www.venomdoc.com/forums/viewt...ophis&start=10

Oh noes! Even Wikipedia has their facts straight! Extra! Extra! Thamnophis now considered venomous! Wikipedia says so!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garter_snake

The yield may be small and their teeth ill-designed to effect medically significant results on a human - but the fact remains, they produce venom.

As to the myth that people can be spontaneously allergic to a venom they've never been exposed to:

http://www.venomdoc.com/forums/viewt...ght=thamnophis

So Neal, your first statement was correct. They not only are considered venomous, but studies have been done that prove that they are.

Interesting. I knew they produced something like that, but I wasn't aware that they're now considered venomous. That's like my little rufous, he doesn't bite or hasn't ever attempted to and i've yet to find any cases of them biting, but he is rear-fanged consider venomous, even though I do not consider him it.

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Originally Posted by Neal

Interesting. I knew they produced something like that, but I wasn't aware that they're now considered venomous. That's like my little rufous, he doesn't bite or hasn't ever attempted to and i've yet to find any cases of them biting, but he is rear-fanged consider venomous, even though I do not consider him it.

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When you have the time, I cannot recommend enough reading through Fry's website.

The main page has links to his publications and even though it's dry reading, his papers on colubrid venom are interesting.

His forum also has several long and informative threads regarding colubrids, how he rates them in terms of potency and how many specvies we consider non-venomous, actually are.

I will go read it in a bit, and continue to read over the next few days. I know he discovered that they have a sub-species of beaked snakes that is very potent.

well like he got bit by it. and nothing happened it got him pretty good. he held on for like 10 seconds maybe.