the ethics of giant snakes

If you can properly care for a giant and meet all its needs I don't see it being unethical. Some day, when I am able to afford it and have the space I would really love to get a burm. They are just incredible snakes to me, and I relish the times I'm able to be around them.

great discussions! so i am now convinced thatgreat snakes are awesome for some, just not for me

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Now THAT is an interesting theory. Not a single thing to do with ethics, but a heckofa .....fact, I suppose, yes, let's go with fact, it's ever so much nicer than saying it's bullsnot, ever so much, yes, much much better....

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I don't know what you're getting at.

I interact with my animals daily, and have established protocols that if I follow, I am at no risk of injury/harm. Some examples:

Never smell like food.
If the first thing they smell is me when the enclosure is open, they know no food is forthcoming.
For monitors/tegus a feeding cue is used of an audible nature.

I say these things with certainty because after keeping giants for over 19 years (over 30 with herps), I have been bitten by giants (let's say over 6 feet as sometimes I've acquired larger specimens that needed to establish the protocols still) a total of ONCE. And I'll accept full responsibility for that occasion, it was certainly not the snake's fault.

Chris

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Originally Posted by mumps

I don't know what you're getting at.

I interact with my animals daily, and have established protocols that if I follow, I am at no risk of injury/harm. Some examples:

Never smell like food.
If the first thing they smell is me when the enclosure is open, they know no food is forthcoming.
For monitors/tegus a feeding cue is used of an audible nature.

I say these things with certainty because after keeping giants for over 19 years (over 30 with herps), I have been bitten by giants (let's say over 6 feet as sometimes I've acquired larger specimens that needed to establish the protocols still) a total of ONCE. And I'll accept full responsibility for that occasion, it was certainly not the snake's fault.

Chris

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Nothing personal, it's just the way people say things sometimes.

The snake follows no protocols. You can't say that he does if there are none for him, which there aren't unless you have the secret of direct communication with your snakes.

While YOU may do well, and I'm in the same boat as you, never had a big one bite me that wasn't my fault, however, I am not faultless, hence the rare bite.

But, by your statement, it makes it sound as though if the human involved does all it should in the partnership, there will be no problems with the snake. This is largely but not 100% accurate.

Just listing my experience.

I for one believe reptiles are a lot smarter than actually given credit for.

Chris

As TheOtherLeadingBrand commented, "ethics" seems like a somewhat odd word to use. I certainly don't believe that a responsible adult keeping a large constrictor in an appropriate enclosure, caring for it properly and not showing it off in an irresponsible manner is "unethical." (Though there are, to be sure, many, many people who do believe this.) Maybe the word you were looking for was "logistics?"

As far as safety goes, my feeling is that there are certainly ways to minimize the risk, most of which have already been mentioned -- don't smell like food, know how to "read" the body language of snakes, etc.. I also prefer to work with animals that are known to be of calmer disposition, rather than disagreeable monsters -- but, there are some who are fine with the latter, even when it comes to giants.

What I think is very important is to realize what an incredibly powerful, potentially dangerous animal one is working with when interacting with giants -- and I think this is something that giant keepers may sometimes forget, especially when working with big, seemingly tame "slug-snakes" like Cookie here (my Burm, pictured below). Before I purchased her, the seller sent me pictures of his (very young) son interacting with the snake. While this seeming display of "tameness" was one of the things that made me want to go have a look and eventually buy her, I think it could be argued that this was a fairly irresponsible thing to do to allow a child to interact with such an animal, and that it could even be considered to border on "unethical." (Similar to how, the other day, I saw the three or four year old daughter of a horse trainer riding around bareback on the back of a horse at a horse show ...)

I do believe that anyone wanting to work with these animals (giant snakes, or horses, or certain types of cattle, or alligators, or ... ) needs to realize the potential for a life-threatening situation to occur in an instant, plan accordingly, and accept that, to some degree, you are always at least somewhat relying on the animal doing what you want it to do. There's always an element of chance and perhaps misplaced trust, though I trust my Burm and the horses that I sometimes with with more than I do the drivers in this area, and I drive on the road every darn day ... So I guess it's all a matter of whether you're willing to take a risk solely for the enjoyment of the animal.

Boy was that a rambling post! ... Sorry for that.

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