Buying from a convicted smuggler???

it wasnt captive bred,and ya'll got one right,sorry i just dont wanna bring names out.also if i am not mistaken,isnt part of that book about the dirty dealings of strictly reptiles,who is still active as well?

Patrick i see your point,but if there is a rare animal,and you buy it from him,how do you know it was brought in legit?,thats where i personally would be hesitant myself

Absolutely.

Again, many animals that are kept today were brought in this way. It seems like it would be hypocritical to black list a convicted smuggler while keeping animals that are here because of them. In a way, They are Pioneers.

I guess it would matter if He / They had served their time, and only because I would hate to send funds to a fugitive incase they were apprehended before they got around to shipping my animals, (Not to mention people do desperate things in desperate situations.)

Besides, if something like HR 669 were to pass, How many of us would continue on, in direct violation of the Lacey Act? Don't throw stones from a glass house...

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Originally Posted by Patrick Long

Tom Crutchfield I am assuming?

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Wow, i almost bought a pair of olive pythons from him.

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Originally Posted by RebelYell83

Patrick i see your point,but if there is a rare animal,and you buy it from him,how do you know it was brought in legit?,thats where i personally would be hesitant myself

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I understand.

In most cases with rare species involved, I think there is some sort of certification paperwork no?

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Originally Posted by Patrick Long

I understand.

In most cases with rare species involved, I think there is some sort of certification paperwork no?

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In Lizard King it's shown how easy it is to get CITES permits from countries where people can be easily paid off. Paperwork doesn't even need to be forged, it can just be bought.

Right, my point is just that. Paperwork is paperwork.

There really is no way of knowing that the animal was brought legal, ESPECIALLY with someone with priors.

But are they really willing to do it AGAIN?



I am defending no one here. I think its actually a very very good topic, wish some other people would chime in.

The problem with smuggling is that wild populations are not protected. I'm not against importing reptiles however I feel wild populations should ALWAYS be put before any thing else (ie. profit/business). Often the animals being smuggled are not cared for properly before and after transit. They are looked at as an item with a dollar sign not an animal. It creates demand for people to capture animals for profit.

There are guidelines in place for importing reptiles legitimately for the benefit of both the animals and people.

Anyway, to answer your question about if I personally would buy from an x-smuggler... I would assume they were no longer doing it and have paid their dues. I wouldn't judge them by their past but I would research any possible purchases if they were selling something I REALLY wanted. Plus, I'm sure there are still people out there that smuggle reptiles and how would you know if they weren't already caught? Its not like they would advertise it.

That's why doing your homework is so important. It doesn't hurt to ask questions and politely pry a little ;);) Just ask them if they smuggle reptiles. lol.

"excuse me,is this brown house snake,,smuggeled by chance",lol,,i would do that too

basically,what i am thinking Pat,is if someone smuggeled say an australian species,just pick one,my head hurts right now,and they passed it along to someone in another country,who then wrote on paperwork,that it was captive bred there,for this reason or that reason,or someone from a zoo forged it(a gentleman that was a curator of a zoo was also arrested in this time frame,for seeling rare/zoo animals,and inflating the prices of antivenom to cover his tracks),it is still a smuggeled animal,but to the us,it was captive bred in another country,,,,then what?

i am not persecuting anyone,nor anything else,hence me not naming names,just a curiosity thing.....

Alibris has it for $10.15, Its on my wish list now.

Its an awesome book, in fact its the only book i read cover to cover in a few years. If you are deep enough into the hobby to be reading this post you will love to book.

As for dealing with "said people" its a moral issue. For me serving time means nothing. If a child molester serves his time, good, but Im not going out of my way to lend him a hand or invite him to my childs birthday party. If a 28 year old man applies for a job at my business and I do a criminal history check and see he has a conviction of possession of marijuana as a teen I could care less. Decide for yourself how you feel about someone who has been found guilty of crime X, make you decision about it and do what you feel is right.