Spider question

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Originally Posted by Turbo Serpent

That actually will make more sense to actually get hard numbers. :gj:

Thanks for the clarification.

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I know it is a lot of work and I do have my own experience with this and am using my own past animals to go off of as well as quite a few local breeders.

I just hope there are a few people out there that are willing to do some calculating to help me out a little.

I know in some animals genes run stronger on one side or the other and I am trying to see if it is possible with snakes in general this is just my first step.

I am sorry that it took me so long to explain it correctly and hope that with the last explanation everything is pretty much cleared up sa to the results i am looking for.

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Originally Posted by Egapal

The question is pretty clear. You just aren't accepting the answer. Its all chance. It doesn't matter what Tom or Bill or Susans experiences are. Because there is someone out there with every experience possible because its all chance.

Male or Female, the spider has a 50/50 chance of passing its spiderness onto each of spring. Got 1 egg. Flip a coin. Got 10 eggs. Flip the coin 10 times. That's how it works. Some people will get all heads, some all tails, most will get a mix. The sex of the spider does not matter.

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I know that there is a 50/50 chance of the genes passing... But how often does that actually happen? I know it is not going to be like that.

I have had clutches from pastel breedings where I got not a single pastel out of 10 eggs but again I have had the exact opposite happen.

There may be something to the male female thing I am just doing a paper for school that is all.

Just trying to get hard numbers from a larger number of people who have bred them to compile the data and show statistics of it.

Do you take statistics?

The more data you get, the more it will go towards 50/50.

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Originally Posted by Egapal

The question is pretty clear. You just aren't accepting the answer. Its all chance. It doesn't matter what Tom or Bill or Susans experiences are. Because there is someone out there with every experience possible because its all chance.

Male or Female, the spider has a 50/50 chance of passing its spiderness onto each of spring. Got 1 egg. Flip a coin. Got 10 eggs. Flip the coin 10 times. That's how it works. Some people will get all heads, some all tails, most will get a mix. The sex of the spider does not matter.

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I think the OP understands this. I'm not sure you understand what the OP is asking for. It has nothing to do with "accepting the answer" the punnett square gives. The OP wants actual numbers of actual clutch results, like Freakie Frog gave.

Tattlife, I know I don't understand WHY you are asking, other than you said a paper for school. I don't see how it will be a very interesting paper. Either you'll get enough responses that it will be very close to the expected 50% ratio regardless of whether mom or dad was the spider, which for sure won't make an interesting paper. Or you will get an answer that appears to differ, in which case the only intelligent thing to say about it is that you must not have had a big enough sample to get statistically relevant information.

Also, have you considered that while it will be relatively easy to find small breeders like Freakie who can give you actual clutch results for male spiders, there are far fewer people who have had clutches from female spiders. That will have a big effect on your paper also.

You might consider a different subject?

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Originally Posted by Egapal

The question is pretty clear. You just aren't accepting the answer.

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I haven't seen his question answered. He knows it's chance, but is asking for actual numbers (even though we all know what could happen).

It shouldn't be difficult for others to post their numbers, as breeders are generally great record keepers.

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Originally Posted by kc261

Also, have you considered that while it will be relatively easy to find small breeders like Freakie who can give you actual clutch results for male spiders, there are far fewer people who have had clutches from female spiders. That will have a big effect on your paper also.

You might consider a different subject?

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The chance of finding people breeding there spider females to a normal male is going to be very slim to no pickings.

Do wish you the best of luck getting the data you want

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Originally Posted by Ben Biscy

I haven't seen his question answered. He knows it's chance, but is asking for actual numbers (even though we all know what could happen).

It shouldn't be difficult for others to post their numbers, as breeders are generally great record keepers.

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Ok heres the numbers for the 2008 year for spiders

Spider male bred to 2 normals

17 eggs were produced

of those eggs 9 were of the Phenotype "wild" and 8 were of the Phenotype "spider".

Of those "Wild" the sex ratio was 6.3
of those "Spiders" the sex ratio was 4.4

Which mean that 47% were Spiders and 53% were Normals

of those 41% of them were female and 59% were males..

So as you can see in even in my small group the numbers don't stray to far from 50/50..

I've got three clutches of spider coming this year I'll try and post the results combined with the above to see if it widens or narrows the gap.

I do understand that smaller breeders tend more towards using a male morph over a female morph. I have asked a few of the larger breeders the same question nd got pretty good results from them, I won't name names here, and so far everything is adding up pretty well.

The paper is for a genetics class where we are learning that in a lot of cases one sex or the other has ,for lack of a better term, stronger genes. I am just trying to get the information for something that was assigned to me. I chose Ball Pythons because. 1. I love them and do breed them. 2. I have better chances of getting information that is reliable than if I had chosen say fish. and 3. If the information I ahve been given so far keeps true to the trend I am seeing then it may very well change a lot of thinking on Ball Python breeding and then more study can be done to prove or disprove anything I may find.

As of right now I have over 4000 clutches of eggs total and the results do show a trend when taken into percentages. I will ahve the paper done Thursday and turned in on Friday so that is when I will say what I have found. So far most people will be shocked IMO.

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Originally Posted by tattlife2001

As of right now I have over 4000 clutches of eggs total and the results do show a trend when taken into percentages. I will have the paper done Thursday and turned in on Friday so that is when I will say what I have found. So far most people will be shocked IMO.

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How many of those 4,000 are female vs male spiders? I'm anxious to see the results, but I want it to be 50% male vs 50% female. So, of 4000, 2000 males, and 2000 females. That's the only way to have a more accurate result. I'm sure you know this already, but I was just checking.

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Originally Posted by tattlife2001

The paper is for a genetics class where we are learning that in a lot of cases one sex or the other has ,for lack of a better term, stronger genes.

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This is in direct contradiction to what I was taught when I took genetics in college. That was more than a few years ago, and science is not stagnant, so who knows what has changed. But I'd be really interested in reading more about it. Can you give us the text book or other info we could research?