Powerfeeding

Honestly, if it's that important to breed the animals, why do you have them? Only for breeding? If there is a possible risk, why would you want to take that for your sake and not the animals.

I do not completely disagree, because we still do not know, so I'm not attempting to put down anyone (especially Tim) because I know you all still have healthy wonderful animals. Just playing devils advocate.

I'm not willing to put stress on my snake through a possibly stressful situation, but that is my choice from what I have learned. When digesting food takes more energy from a snake than slithering at the highest speed, and there is no break from this energy, or the food is too small to make up for it, I think it's possibly causing more harm than good.

But, then again, because their so young, and they wouldn't be power fed at adulthood, I wonder how much of an impact it would have on the body of a snake for it to be powerfed for it's entire life v.s. just adolescence.

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

Honestly, if it's that important to breed the animals, why do you have them? Only for breeding? If there is a possible risk, why would you want to take that for your sake and not the animals.

I do not completely disagree, because we still do not know, so I'm not attempting to put down anyone (especially Tim) because I know you all still have healthy wonderful animals. Just playing devils advocate.

I'm not willing to put stress on my snake through a possibly stressful situation, but that is my choice from what I have learned. When digesting food takes more energy from a snake than slithering at the highest speed, and there is no break from this energy, or the food is too small to make up for it, I think it's possibly causing more harm than good.

But, then again, because their so young, and they wouldn't be power fed at adulthood, I wonder how much of an impact it would have on the body of a snake for it to be powerfed for it's entire life v.s. just adolescence.

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Regarding younger snakes, as Tim said - it's in their best interest to grow as quickly as possible to be less of a prey item to bigger animals. I believe that Tim told me that some CH babies that are imported have been reported to be 2 x the size of their equally aged CB babies, because they ate every single time they came across prey.

The longer I've kept these animals, the more open that I've become to new methods of keeping and raising them based on what makes good common sense to me. When I first started keeping them, all my personal "rules" were very black and white about their care. Now I'm open to more shades of gray and that if the Barkers can keep them one way and be successful, and NERD can keep them a different way, and Brian Sharp yet another, who's to say that one way is better than another?

There are certainly very basic guidelines that we stick to when advising those new to keeping ball pythons, because they are tried and true. But for those with more experience under their belts, think outside the box a little. Just because someone is feeding more than you would, doesn't mean that it's a bad thing. How else do we learn more about them?

Three years ago, NO one would have bred a male under a year old. Now, with people like John Stranahan (jasballs) pushing the envelope you now hear Adam say on Reptile Radio that he's bred younger males, you hear many of the big breeders trying it and seeing no detriment to their male's health, as long as they are in tune with their animal and stress signals.

No one serious about their animals would willingly risk their health. I can't speak to un-ethical people who thought BP's were the next big money maker a few years ago, but most of the members participating here I find to be very thoughtful and put their animal's well-being first, but are also willing to try new things, while still being mindful to how their animals respond.

Just my $.02

Yeah it just doesnt seem right to powerfeed. The only way I could justify it is if you are trying to get a very underweight animal to a regular healthy weight. But even then I wouldnt go overboard with it. Say it an adult maybe feed it a slighty larger than normal prey every 4 days instead of 7 days. I have not done this but i figure that would be understandable. But even then once they are to proper weight then regular feeding schedules should be set in place.

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

. When digesting food takes more energy from a snake than slithering at the highest speed, and there is no break from this energy, or the food is too small to make up for it, I think it's possibly causing more harm than good.

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i may be reading this wrong but if they used more energy digesting food then the what you were feeding them wouldnt that be under feeding not power feeding?
cuz i look at power feeding as feeding reg size prey more often or larger prey instead, this would be more than they would get if you were not to power feed.
if twice as much is not enough to make up for the energy lost how would half as much be enough then?

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Originally Posted by 771subliminal

i may be reading this wrong but if they used more energy digesting food then the what you were feeding them wouldnt that be under feeding not power feeding?
cuz i look at power feeding as feeding reg size prey more often or larger prey instead, this would be more than they would get if you were not to power feed.
if twice as much is not enough to make up for the energy lost how would half as much be enough then?

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Power feeding usually in my knowledge is feeding a prey item every 3 days or so that is smaller than what they would normally get. I could be wrong, but I think that was the point Tim came across in the last thread about this.

I powerfeed but I do not over do it

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

Power feeding usually in my knowledge is feeding a prey item every 3 days or so that is smaller than what they would normally get. I could be wrong, but I think that was the point Tim came across in the last thread about this.

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As I understand it (and I admit that I am new to snakes) power feeding is where you feed a normal sized prey every three to for days, and feed two at a time as mentioned earlier (following a live meal with a F/T meal).

everyone "trying to get their males up to weight" is using a certain extent of powerfeeding.

That said.....would a wild ball python (who is an opportunistic eater) be considered powerfeeding itself, fi it eats two mice in a day, maybe 4 mice in the course of a week.


ps Im not voting, the votes are not specific enough

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Originally Posted by Patrick Long

everyone "trying to get their males up to weight" is using a certain extent of powerfeeding.

That said.....would a wild ball python (who is an opportunistic eater) be considered powerfeeding itself, fi it eats two mice in a day, maybe 4 mice in the course of a week.


ps Im not voting, the votes are not specific enough

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It depends on the area, if they have a ton of mice around, they eat as many as they can right? If they have none around, the move to look for some.
Theres also the large gaps of time that they don't eat that people tend to forget about, they may eat 4-5 meals really quickly in a row and not eat for a good two-three months.
I donno, it's really an opinion as we don't really know what goes on in the wild for them. I think a study is in order!

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Regarding younger snakes, as Tim said - it's in their best interest to grow as quickly as possible to be less of a prey item to bigger animals. I believe that Tim told me that some CH babies that are imported have been reported to be 2 x the size of their equally aged CB babies, because they ate every single time they came across prey.

The longer I've kept these animals, the more open that I've become to new methods of keeping and raising them based on what makes good common sense to me. When I first started keeping them, all my personal "rules" were very black and white about their care. Now I'm open to more shades of gray and that if the Barkers can keep them one way and be successful, and NERD can keep them a different way, and Brian Sharp yet another, who's to say that one way is better than another?

There are certainly very basic guidelines that we stick to when advising those new to keeping ball pythons, because they are tried and true. But for those with more experience under their belts, think outside the box a little. Just because someone is feeding more than you would, doesn't mean that it's a bad thing. How else do we learn more about them?

Three years ago, NO one would have bred a male under a year old. Now, with people like John Stranahan (jasballs) pushing the envelope you now hear Adam say on Reptile Radio that he's bred younger males, you hear many of the big breeders trying it and seeing no detriment to their male's health, as long as they are in tune with their animal and stress signals.

No one serious about their animals would willingly risk their health. I can't speak to un-ethical people who thought BP's were the next big money maker a few years ago, but most of the members participating here I find to be very thoughtful and put their animal's well-being first, but are also willing to try new things, while still being mindful to how their animals respond.

Just my $.02

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I completely agree with you, and I'm not saying that one way is better than another. Just pushing the other side of things.
I wouldn't personally power feed, just because I'm not in a rush to breed my animals, but I'm not downing anyone who does, unless they do it in a way that they're knowingly harming their animals.
This site is full of a lot of members who are very good about caring for their animals and doing so in a very ethical manner, even with their feeders. :)