destiny :(

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Could you share a bit more history/information on her. Is this a snake you hatched yourself or one you purchased as a hatchling? How many times has it been helped to eat? Are you assist feeding or having to go the route of force feeding? What have you tried already to encourage this snake to hunt for itself as far as feeding methods, type and size of prey, any changes in housing or husbandry routines?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

In the UK - you feed f/t and I know it's illegal to feed live - but what about in cases of life and death? Do they make exceptions? Is there any way to get live hoppers to try with her?

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Thanks for replies guys, sorry should have given mor info.
She`s an 07 hatchling, bred by ourselves, never fed on her own, always had to force feed her, she wont assist.
We have tried all the normal methods and i have no problems in offering live as we breed all our own food, but she is not at all stimulated by live.She`s in a small tub (hatchling tub) with a water bowl and hide, she is in our snake room, which i low traffic and quiet, also im keeping her tub pretty much covered to minamise stress.Weve tried diffrent food items, colours and sizes, but nothing...Its as if she dosnt recogniose its even food.We are used to non feeders and have experience in them from one time or another, but never had one thats not eaten at all from the start/hatched.

She's beautiful - :colbert: please don't give up.

Have you tried braining? Just in case you're unfamiliar with the method... Take an already dead prey item, I'd suggest a fuzzy mouse, and use a razor blade or hobby knife to slit the skull open, and smear some of the brain matter over the head of the prey item. This will many times stimulate a feeding response.

Steve

hi, yes we tried all these.
I have experience with non feeders, have to deal with them all the time, but the problem is that she`s never ate and she dosnt recognise the food, where as others have ate atleast once before.

That is a shame...Is is possible for a snake to not have a sense of smell like it sometimes happens with humans? She doesn't recognize it as food because she can't smell it :confused: Just a thought although I hope you can still manage to get her eating properly...Good Luck

Sounds like you've certainly explored a lot of possibilities with her as well as having experience with non-feeders. I do not have the experience to back saying this (it being our first breeding year here though we've dealt with young non-feeding snakes and have assist/force fed them) but my gut instincts says this may be a case of a snake just not meant to be. I do believe that sometimes in captivity and in our quest to save every one of them, we may be inadvertently keeping snakes alive that otherwise would simply be culled by natural processes. There's a fine line between doing all we can, and knowing when that isn't ever going to be enough. This snake may be one of those that just doesn't have what it takes to make it.

The harsh part of this is the decision and in that, I can't offer any wisdom because I don't feel I have the direct hands-on experience to do so. I would suggest you PM some of our very experienced breeders here to ask them directly if they have any further ideas or when to draw the line on a hatchling that just will not feed independently. If you need any names of those members here with the most experience with starting their own hatchlings, please don't hesitate to ask.

This must be an awful place to be in, trying so hard with her but really not seeing any steps forward. :(

Oh gosh Jo, thank you for saying what I was thinking but I really didn't want to get flamed and cranked on for it. :tears:

McKinsey, no one gets flamed around here for an honest, caring opinion.

I'm certainly not telling him to put that snake down because #1 I don't have my hands on that snake personally to see what's going on and #2 I don't personally have near enough experience to state that this snake isn't going to make it. Even if I did have both those things happening, all I could or would ever do is offer my support, my thoughts for whatever they are worth and help provide a place for this keeper to feel they can talk openly about the frustrations of dealing with this sort of situation. In the end it will be his decision but as an online community we can be here to help bounce around ideas, hook him up to people that might have the experience and well....just be here.

I've had a none feeding baby snake die in my hands. It's not a nice experience to watch that little life fade away but one that I may well face again in the future. Not at all nice, but something I learned from. That learning experience helped Mike and I save two more though so in the end something good came of something sad.

If this kind of post gets flamed, well then that's on the person doing the flaming not on me, as far as I'm concerned.

Hi,

We force fed the male I have for 2.5 years in the shop so I know your pain.

We tried everything from the false rodent nest, the paper bag overnight, to every type of alernate prey we could think of (even snake sausages at one point) as well as chicks, gerbils, hamsters, fish (boss's idea was the smell - and yes, yes, it did smell and was a hundred times worse the next morning), lizards and toads.

Nada.

When the shop shut down I brought him home and set him up in a new tank in my livingroom and, for some reason, the change of scenery seemed to do the trick. :confused:

He is still a very, very, fussy eater and stops eating almost every winter but they do snap out of it so don't lose heart. :snake:

Can you get ASF's anywhere near you? The only other thing I can think of is making a list of all the things you have tried and seeing if anyone has had success with something you have not yet got to?

Have yoiu tried annoying her into a strike? It's generally regarded as counter productive but I have had it work once when getting a baby started.

**edit**

Something else just occured - when you say you have to force because she will not assist. Where is the cut off where she will not spit it back out?

I.e. is it when the back legs are hanging out of her throat, half way down her neck or all the way down into her belly?

If it is feasable then slowly trying to move the trigger further up over a period of time might be worth it? I always think the main sucess point is when they actually have to use their jaws and muscles to finish the eating process for the first time.

**end edit**


dr del

This is WAY out of my realm of experience... so this is not meant to override what anyone else said... or says later...

I agree with Derek: a more detailed list if exactly what you've tried might help the more experienced people identify something you haven't tried.

I agree with Joanna that sometimes people feel compelled to save everything, when maybe the thing they are trying to save just isn't meant to be. No one is in the position from what you've posted so far to say if it is time to give up on this snake yet or not. Really, you are the only one who can ever make that decision.

Since ASFs are supposed to be the primary food of BPs in the wild, and good at triggering an eating response during a hunger strike, that definitely seems worth a try if you haven't already.

Maybe it is time to stop force-feeding, and just offer food once a week and see if she gets hungry enough to take it? Or, the flip side of that, maybe increase the size/frequency of her meals, to try to jump-start her growth rate, which might jump-start her feeding response?

Getting back to Joanna's point, even if you get this snake eating, the question remains of what to do with her. Do you want to breed this snake when you have no idea if this might be related to something genetic? I'd think you probably have better options for breeding stock. But also, do you want to put her in a pet home? Pet owners won't have the experience to be as able to deal with it if this snake ends up being one that goes on hunger strikes frequently. More tough decisions.