dif between corns, kings and rats?????

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Originally Posted by kc261

Do you have any idea if this is because those crosses are easier, or just because kings/milks and corns are the more popular species, while most of the rat snakes aren't as popular?

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I dunno....popularity may be the dominant factor, but I have read/heard in a few different places that they are considered more closely related to Lampropeltis than Pantherophis.

But then again, people will cross anything if they remotely thinks it possible, popular or not. Lol...corns do appear to sleep with pretty much anything though.

Corns and Rats are very closely related, and are both part of the Elaphe species. I don't know much about Kings but I do know that they are quite different in range and in species. That's the species difference between them, if you want to know the difference in care, it's not much. Most of those species will do well with a standard colubrid setup-the only difference there is is the enclosure size. The only exception to this are arboreal ratsnakes, which require higher cages with branches for climbing.

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Corns and Rats are very closely related, and are both part of the Elaphe species

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This has pretty much been established already. The question now is, what makes a cornsnake a ratsnake? Its not just because someone a hundred years ago said so.

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don't know much about Kings but I do know that they are quite different in range and in species. That's the species difference between them

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Hmm...not really, no. :colbert: Members of both groups (Pantherophis and Lampropeltis)can be found in the same environments and even the same species (split into subspecies) can be found in different environments. For example, the cornsnake and the Great Plains ratsnake are technically the same species, yet found in very different habitats and ranges.

There's more to determining these things than just range and behavior.

Very true. Another factor is body build, size, scale orientation, head shape... these things also set them apart. Most Rat snakes I've seen, for example, are prone to bug-eye and seem to have slightly smaller heads than corns and most Milks seem to have more rounded heads.

Range and habitat type are an important factor, but normally are not definitive ways to tell species apart. The main thing, genetics, is screwed up by cross breeding... so someday there may not even BE a way to tell them apart for sure. :)

Sorry if that was rambling... it's been a long and snowy day here. (wish the damn weather would settle).

The "Ratsnake" name has been tradicionally attributed to all snakes of the former genus Elaphe at least since the "bible" of Fitzinger was published. Nowadays, they both belong to the genus Pantherophis. So, to that extent, a corn is a ratsnake (also used to be called red ratsnakes).


Kings, on the other hand belong to the genus Lampropeltis (with the milksnakes). So they´re a totally different story. Their body shape is totally different (to start it, they don´t have a distinguished head), the scales are smoother, etc.

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Originally Posted by Ophiuchus

This has pretty much been established already. The question now is, what makes a cornsnake a ratsnake? Its not just because someone a hundred years ago said so.




Hmm...not really, no. :colbert: Members of both groups (Pantherophis and Lampropeltis)can be found in the same environments and even the same species (split into subspecies) can be found in different environments. For example, the cornsnake and the Great Plains ratsnake are technically the same species, yet found in very different habitats and ranges.

There's more to determining these things than just range and behavior.

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Hey, range detail just isn't my thing. I meant that the Kingsnake's range was different from the Rat snake's range. And I don't think the locations really matter to anyone unless they're herpers.