multiple snakes in same tank

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Originally Posted by KJLegend

People who say there is absolutely no benefit to keeping more than one snake per enclosure, well there are benefits like less space taken up in your house, less supplies like bulbs, heat pads, water dish, bedding, temp guages, etc... This to me would be a plus if it was actually healthy for the snakes. If it is unhealthy for them and you actually have proof of this or have personally experienced negative results I would be glad to hear the stories you have.

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Well in my opinion if you have to cut corners in order to have numerous reptiles then maybe its not in the reptiles best interests.If you try to go the "cheap" route then in the long run the reptile is the ones who suffer :(.Its simple 1 reptile to 1 enclosure = happy healthy reptiles :gj:

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Originally Posted by Crazydude

I cant comment on housing snakes together from personal experience, But with any reptile, The only benifit is saving space and money, which in that case, I would not say the person should own the animal if they want to take shortcuts. Save space by keeping tubs stacked, or a rack, not endangering or stressing the animal.

But with sand, Heres the deal why Sand, but calci-sand more specifically is bad for all reptiles. Anyone with it, take a little bit, ad a drop or two of water. And tell me what you get. For those that wont do this or dont have calci-sand, It turns to a rock, Its called Cal-crete, and is used in rural africa and other areas as roads, So you are in essense putting cement in the animals body if any is consumed. You wouldnt eat cement, Would you make your pet? Also the calcium draws them to it. It could stick to mice, (and insects for beardie matters), and would probably be messy. A wet/moist snake (comming out of a moist hide, the vent after defication) this could get sand stuck easy.

Anyway, Sand has no place for a ball python IN MY OPINION, along with housing together for non breeding/ short term purposes. But i would not use sand, and also take out the calci-sand in your dragons enclosure, At least replace with childrens playsand which does not clump into cement. \

Ben

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Great info. Thanks for sharing Ben. :gj:

My apologies - it wasn't the OP who said they were going to do it anyway. :oops:

thanks to all. i am just tryin to learn as much as i can before i get another anyways ya cant trust what ya hear at the pet store!

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Originally Posted by rabernet

I really have a hard time understanding why people post questions, don't like the answers and say they're going to do it anyway.



It's not about a benefit to YOU - it's about a benefit to the snakes - the snakes get NO benefit from it.

For your reading pleasure:
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=23890

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This is exactly why I was asking because if you or someone here has a specific experience with bad things happening to the snakes when housed together that is what I was asking about. Therefore my comment about the benefits to 'ME the human' would be worth it unless there is cold hard evidence from people here with personal experience rather than just people saying what they THINK might happen. If you know for sure from your OWN experiences there are negative aspects to having more than one snake then please inform us. Like I said I am new to this and I too am trying to educate myself about this idea among many others. Plus the breeder who I purchased my ball from said there is not a problem with 1.1 pairs in one enclosure, provided enough space etc... I never said anything about doing it anyways I am just asking if anyone here knows for sure.

As for calci-sand in a snakes cage I should have clarrified in my previous post that I only meant I use it for my beardie and I have never had any problems. As for snakes I do not know why you would consider using it for snakes when they do not have sand in their natural habitat. Especially since they cannot control what goes in their mouth when they eat since they do not have hands/legs etc... I just wanted to insert my own experience with MY beardie having no problems with calci sand as an adult.

It really sucks that it seems like whenever I post on this forum people attack what I say even when I say I am just trying to educate myself by asking questions etc... If this continues I do not know if I will post anymore I guess. Sorry if I posted false information but like I have stated I am not an expert on the topics explained.

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Originally Posted by KJLegend

It really sucks that it seems like whenever I post on this forum people attack what I say even when I say I am just trying to educate myself by asking questions etc...

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Props!! this is my first experience with a forum and i have quickly realized that everybody has their own way with dealing with their pets and some are quite defensive about it. i only asked these questions to learn from others experiences before i make any mistakes. the reason i ask about more than one bp in an enclosure is because the place i got my first from had three or four together. As for the calci-sand it was reccomended by petsmart for the beardie and i had no reason to not believe them UNTIL NOW haha. i will make the changes tomorrow and stick with the aspen in the bp tank. i belive (could be wrong) that many use this forum for educational reasons to better the life of their pets not to insult anyone. again thanks for all the good advice!

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Originally Posted by KJLegend

This is exactly why I was asking because if you or someone here has a specific experience with bad things happening to the snakes when housed together that is what I was asking about. Therefore my comment about the benefits to 'ME the human' would be worth it unless there is cold hard evidence from people here with personal experience rather than just people saying what they THINK might happen. If you know for sure from your OWN experiences there are negative aspects to having more than one snake then please inform us. Like I said I am new to this and I too am trying to educate myself about this idea among many others. Plus the breeder who I purchased my ball from said there is not a problem with 1.1 pairs in one enclosure, provided enough space etc... I never said anything about doing it anyways I am just asking if anyone here knows for sure.

As for calci-sand in a snakes cage I should have clarrified in my previous post that I only meant I use it for my beardie and I have never had any problems. As for snakes I do not know why you would consider using it for snakes when they do not have sand in their natural habitat. Especially since they cannot control what goes in their mouth when they eat since they do not have hands/legs etc... I just wanted to insert my own experience with MY beardie having no problems with calci sand as an adult.

It really sucks that it seems like whenever I post on this forum people attack what I say even when I say I am just trying to educate myself by asking questions etc... If this continues I do not know if I will post anymore I guess. Sorry if I posted false information but like I have stated I am not an expert on the topics explained.

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KJLegend, people aren't attacking you. They are giving you advice, albeit some in a more strong tone. Stop being so defensive.

You are telling everyone that there isn't a problem with housing Beardies on Calci-sand, but there is a problem... They can become impacted, which as you stated in your own post, CAN LEAD TO DEATH. The only benefit you stated is that sand isn't ugly for a display tank. For one, that benefit affects you only. Secondly, how does the good outweigh the bad in that situation?

Also, I don't have a personal experience with housing two snakes in one enclosure, but again what are the benefits? (Besides your personal benefits: saving space, costs, etc.) The only thing that will happen is the dominant animal will always have the good hidespot and be able to thermoregulate at the other animal's expense. It's unneeded stress, plain and simple. I'm not sure why you are asking for personal stories and proof, isn't common sense enough?

Here lies the problem: You state that you aren't an expert and that you may be posting false information. Forum lurkers may quickly read over your post and decide that they are going to try your idea. Try absorbing advice before giving it.

you also said that Calci sand is easy to clean, any sand is not. when they poop it soaks up everything, and unless you change out all of it, you are more than likely leaving some in to grow bacteria. Calci sand is also VERY dusty, which will lead to RI.
Impaction does not happen over night, it builds up slowly and then without notice will start putting pressure on your reptiles spine. Your not having any problems now, so are you going to wait until something does happen? Were not trying to be mean, were just trying to help your beardie;)

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Originally Posted by ineedmore

thanks to all. i am just tryin to learn as much as i can before i get another anyways ya cant trust what ya hear at the pet store!

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No you can't trust what most pet stores tell you about the care of pretty much anything they sell. Remember they aren't in the business of keeping animals, they are in the business of moving them out the door (making a sale) as fast as possible and most have corporate offices that set very poor standards of care that good employees struggle under. There are some wonderful stores out there but sadly most of the big chain stores just aren't that great.

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Originally Posted by KJLegend

It really sucks that it seems like whenever I post on this forum people attack what I say even when I say I am just trying to educate myself by asking questions etc... If this continues I do not know if I will post anymore I guess. Sorry if I posted false information but like I have stated I am not an expert on the topics explained.

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KJ, it's always hard to hear something you don't want to hear. That's just us humans being human. It's also hard when all you have is the written word with no cues like body language, tone of voice, etc. to guide you on the full intent of the message.

I'd ask you to look a bit closer at the care and concern expressed for you and the animals you keep and less about the word choice a member might make. I'd also ask our experienced members to always remember that our newcomers may have been given very poor advice, may well have bought the animal on impulse, whatever.....if your good message is lost in a terse tone....the greatest damage won't be to someone's ego...it will be to that animal you are striving to help.

Back to the BP situation... I see no benefit with housing ball pythons together unless it is for a short stint mating.

1. Competition for best perceived spots in the tank.
2. Domination of one snake over the other (AKA, following each other around the tank, snakes curled up together in a pile, etc)
3. Stress from competition and domination can lead to a suppressed or compromised immune system.
4. Stress can lead to illness and most common refusing feed.
5. Pre-mature breeding, leading to possible complications from young mother.
6. Having the possibility of a few eggs hatching, and now having to feed and house hatchlings.
7. Possibility of cannibalism
8. ZERO QUARANTINE, leading to spread of bacteria, disease and parasites (ALL animals should be QT for at least 60 days in a separate room following strict rules)
9. Unless you observe the animals defecating, you will not have a strict idea of which animal defecated and when.
10. If animals are sick, you have no idea who's poo is who's.
11. Your animals are mis sexed, and the males combat
12. BP's are not social animals at all

I could go on if I had time to think about it.

The benefits far out-weigh the risks.

Sand is not advised as a substrate for BP's due to the abrasiveness, limited cleanliness, impaction risk. Better to go with Aspen, coconut fiber, cypress mulch, bark.

It is much easier to buy a tub or reptile enclosure for the second snake appropriate for it's size and the climate control and space limitations are going to be easily achieved.