YES they are doing it!! (the FL laws for large snakes)

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Originally Posted by MarkS

I would think that any state where the temp can drop down below freezing, even for only short periods of time, would kill off any feral burms. Even Florida can have cold snaps where the temps drop below freezing.

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Exactly, the warmest and most tropical place in the lower 48, Florida, still has 30-40 degree temps in deep winter. Considering RIs start at like 70 degrees? I'm not buying the news scare to be honest.

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Originally Posted by GirDance

For the most part I agree with the first the part of elevatethis's post, that the permits are going to do pretty much nothing for the people who caused the invasion issue in the first place. However, personally, I think it's a load of *&%$ and that alot of the 'cheers' for this are just stages of initial relief that all species haven't been banned completely. 1, 2 or even 5 years down the road they are going to look at this, realize that it's done nothing to solve the underlying issue and then use that to justify stricter and broader laws regarding the issue. This all under the process of law making and is a political trick on the public used to gain acceptance. They pass a small statute and if that works, they use it to justify passing a more official law, if it doesn't work they use it to justify passing an even stricter law because obviously in the statute phase the problem wasn't affected.

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What you're describing here is the concept of a "slippery slope." I totally hear you on that and agree that it could get worse if the legislative process goes through unchecked.

I don't see how the permit process as it is applied to big cats or other mammals wouldn't also work for the reptiles on the ROC list. Sure, it wouldn't magically remove the invasive populations from the wild, but it would at very least prevent a large amount of animals being introduced in the future. At very least it would buy time for trappers to start erradicating the invasive species there so far.

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

IMHO, I think that the regulation shouldn't only take place on the consumer level, but also on the people who SELL them. I'll go back to the exotic cat analogy...there are people that breed exotic cats like servals, bobcats, etc, and can not legally sell them to someone who doesn't also have a permit. It varies from state to state but most require you to gain some practical experience with a licensed keeper, and demonstrate you have adequate facilities to house the animals, before you yourself can obtain one of those species. This process alone weeds out a TON of idiots who probably would have obtained these animals if there wasn't any red tape.

I don't think it should be any different with the species on the ROC list. Logistically, local governments could integrate these species in the processes they already have in place for other regulated wild animals. It would be much easier and cost-effective to enforce.

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They do enforce it on the people selling Burms and such. In about 3 different stores there are Burms in tanks labeled "PERMIT REQUIRED". Now since I havn't bought a Burm I can't say how the actual enforcement goes.

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Originally Posted by Brimstone111888

They do enforce it on the people selling Burms and such. In about 3 different stores there are Burms in tanks labeled "PERMIT REQUIRED". Now since I havn't bought a Burm I can't say how the actual enforcement goes.

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I wasn't aware of that. Is that statewide or by county?

What about reptile expos?

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Originally Posted by Brimstone111888

Exactly, the warmest and most tropical place in the lower 48, Florida, still has 30-40 degree temps in deep winter. Considering RIs start at like 70 degrees? I'm not buying the news scare to be honest.

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It may be a news scare, but there is a fragment of truth to it or it wouldn't have been posted.

I may be giving too much credit to the media, but I do agree with the possibilities.

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

What you're describing here is the concept of a "slippery slope." I totally hear you on that and agree that it could get worse if the legislative process goes through unchecked.

I don't see how the permit process as it is applied to big cats or other mammals wouldn't also work for the reptiles on the ROC list. Sure, it wouldn't magically remove the invasive populations from the wild, but it would at very least prevent a large amount of animals being introduced in the future. At very least it would buy time for trappers to start erradicating the invasive species there so far.

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It's not so much a 'slippery slope' as it is empirically proven through historic research of the progression of statutes and laws.

The whole point is, the people causing the issue are the same sort of people who are going to completely ignore the permit process and continue on with what they've been doing in the past.

As I'm simultaneously on the phone with a friend who works for the SPCA and is also scoffing this, apparently 60% of the 'stray' cats they take in and can't find the original owners for are also micro-chipped. No one forces them to update their address etc or even provide accurate information after the initial paperwork, so the cats end up staying there or being put down.

Either way, it's not something to be over joyed about, and the only good I see it actually doing is to open doors to further regulations in the future.

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

I wasn't aware of that. Is that statewide or by county?

What about reptile expos?

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Just here in FL at the moment. I pretty sure stores have to keep a record of who they sell the snakes to. They have something down here with all birds that are sold, for basically the same reason.

Customers are required to give Drivers ID, Address, DOB and a few other things, I would assume it is similar to snakes.

in jersey all animals require a permit to buy and own in the pet trade all reptiles and tarantulas, ferret, rabbits, gerbils, guinea pigs, almost all the animals that you get in a pet store up here you need to get a permit. jersey sucks for owning animals.

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Originally Posted by LadyOhh

It may be a news scare, but there is a fragment of truth to it or it wouldn't have been posted.

I may be giving too much credit to the media, but I do agree with the possibilities.

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Where in the US can other tropical snakes live? All the article says is they thing they could be moving up the coast or out west. Out west is way to dry and anywhere else it will be too cold. In the article it says burms were found in mid 90's and they weren't repopulating in the wild until around 2003.

I agree burms can be found elsewhere other than Florida, however I severely doubt they can thrive and breed anywhere else.

Only time will tell I guess.

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Originally Posted by Brimstone111888

I agree burms can be found elsewhere other than Florida, however I severely doubt they can thrive and breed anywhere else.

Only time will tell I guess.

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Hey, if they can survive a cold snap in Florida, who knows what else they can handle. They are hardy animals...

It's a shame it is happening this way, but something that obviously needs to be addressed.

Sad that poor pet ownership has led to this... :tears: