Snakes on newspaper...

Its all owner preference. I have 4 custom enclosures that are 4x2x1.5 that I use for my older females and I also use tubs for my males and babies. I use tubs for the babies bc they are cheap, easy to maintain humid/temp., and theyre easy to clean. I think for the big females and males they should have more room to move around so all my adult females will have the custom enclosures. Although I prefer the natural look... I use newspaper bc to me id rather know when they pee/crap so I can get it outta there and clean it rather than have some old urates chillen in the mulch/aspen for a couple weeks. As long as you meet the proper housing requirements I think all animals benefit from the extra space. The only issue is when you expand the cage size it becomes more challenging to meet requirements... To solve this you just have a whole room that set to the right temps/humidity so you dont have to worry about that :)

Connie... 2 tight hides act as the termite mounds... Inside a 4x2 enclosure its not hard to take up space with a big water dish and 2 hides(cat litter dishes)... throw in a big females and your not going to have a stressed snake. As I stated before meeting humidity/temperatures is far more important than tank size...

with that said you obviously wont find me housing a baby in a 4x2 cage hence the reason I also use tubs.

Yes, used the PAM!!! :gj:

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

I hope you are treating the enclosure with a mite killer like PAM, and not just wishing the mites or their eggs away ;)

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

Connie... 2 tight hides act as the termite mounds... Inside a 4x2 enclosure its not hard to take up space with a big water dish and 2 hides(cat litter dishes)... throw in a big females and your not going to have a stressed snake. As I stated before meeting humidity/temperatures is far more important than tank size...

with that said you obviously wont find me housing a baby in a 4x2 cage hence the reason I also use tubs.

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Josh, I know you and I have danced around this before. I have merely stated, again, meet the needs of the snake, the rest is just fringe benefits for us. You have obviously done this with yours, while providing a more stimulating environment with no harm to the snakes requirements.

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

I still think your not thinking about the BP's requirements. BP's live in burrows, tunnels, termite mounds. Underground 90% of the time. THEY require a tight space for their comfort. BP's like something touching them on all sides, this isn't a carpet python... Just because Germany says BP's require more room, doesn't mean it is beneficial or correct husbandry for the species.

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BPs need small hides for them feeling safe, that is true of course. But I also think that a snake needs a certain room to explore once they're out of their hide. Or are you trying to tell me that BPs in Ghana stay within 2 feet of their hide entrance? ;) I think that as long as you provide plenty of adequate hides, there is no such thing as a tub/tank that is too big.

Again, I know that snakes can feel great in a rather small tub laid out with newspaper and equipped with a good hide... the point of this thread was that I wanted to find out if people share my feelings in regard to the natural look & feel of the tank/tub.

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Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Or are you trying to tell me that BPs in Ghana stay within 2 feet of their hide entrance? ;) I think that as long as you provide plenty of adequate hides, there is no such thing as a tub/tank that is too big.

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Where do you think BP's are most often found in the wild? In burrows. If you have the opportunity, I suggest picking up either VPI's book, or Kevin's the Complete ball python.

Again, I think the point of my posts has been missed. I will repost it for your benefit. ;)

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

When designing an enclosure for a snake, you have to put their needs first, and our desires last. A tub is a great way to fullfill all of their needs simply, but tanks are a harder to get the hang of to fullfill those same needs. That's my theory behind tubs. ;)

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

I still think your not thinking about the BP's requirements.

I'm not bashing your dreams of a nice enclosure, you must understand the delicate mannerisms of BP's in particular. They are very easily stressed with large enclosures, if you meet their requirements of nice tight hides, thermoregulation, good ground cover for them to feel safe moving around, all the while providing perfect temps and humidity, then you very well could have a large nice natural enclosure.

My post was merely stating that we humans too often put our desires before the snakes NEEDS. Think about what any snake need first, and plan around that. ;)

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

I have merely stated, again, meet the needs of the snake, the rest is just fringe benefits for us. You have obviously done this with yours, while providing a more stimulating environment with no harm to the snakes requirements.

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Does this make any sense now? Put the snakes requirements first and foremost. Security is number one for BP's. Heat, humidity, and security. Those are the most important things we should be doing for our snakes. For BP's we often overlook how nervous it makes them to be in a large enclosure. Put their NEEDS before our desires.

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Where do you think BP's are most often found in the wild? In burrows. If you have the opportunity, I suggest picking up either VPI's book, or Kevin's the Complete ball python.

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No worries, I've read Kevin's book and a lot more material about the topic. Of course BPs are often found there, they spend 90% of the time in their hides in nature... but what do you think do they do the other 10%? Sitting in front of their hide waiting for a mouse to pass by?

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Does this make any sense now? Put the snakes requirements first and foremost. Security is number one for BP's. Heat, humidity, and security. Those are the most important things we should be doing for our snakes. For BP's we often overlook how nervous it makes them to be in a large enclosure.

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It made sense even before you were so polite to repost your points. You are missing what I am saying: Security = Hides, large enclosure = no problem with hides, nature = large enclosure...

I prefer cypress because it absorbs like crazy. With newspaper and paper towels the urine would spread out over a large area and the snake might move right through it...ick.
The cypress (aspen is good also) keeps the mess well contained and away from the snake's skin until I can get in there and spot clean (every day!)

Hi Markus! Welcome to BP.net! :handshake

I'm one of those that keeps my BP in a tub with paper because it's just easier for me and she seems perfectly content in there. However, I completely understand what you're saying and look forward to the time when it's practical for me to have a few beautiful "naturalistic" displays for some snakes that are more display-friendly.

The way I see it...if you're able to provide the right temps and humidity and the snake seems to feel secure in its home (eats readily and not too stressed about being handled)...then the look (and even the size) of the enclosure is entirely up to the Keeper and should make you feel comfortable as well.

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Originally Posted by JLC

The way I see it...if you're able to provide the right temps and humidity and the snake seems to feel secure in its home (eats readily and not too stressed about being handled)...then the look (and even the size) of the enclosure is entirely up to the Keeper and should make you feel comfortable as well.

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I agree 100%, Judy :) As long as the snake feels good & healthy everything is allowed! I just wanted to ask if I'm alone with my personal views :)

There's others that do like the more natural looking enclosures. They require more cleaning, and if you set it up with several tight secure hides, and keep the temps and hunmidty right, then you're fine.
The other issue is, if your ball python is happy in that enclosure, then you've got a really nice tank to look at.. you probably won't see the snake hardly at all, as they stay in the hides... which makes them happy.
I use tubs, easier to clean, easier to keep temps and humidity proper, and less space taken up. As long as my snakes seem happy(i.e. they eat, shed, breed etc) then I'm happy with it.
I have a cornsnake too, and she usually ends up with the natural looking tank to roam around and look nice in.