are my snakes *happy* or trying to mate?

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Originally Posted by Pythonman

I have read alot of literature that says bp's can "raise their body temp above that of their surrounding area by twitching thier muscles". They will also return to the eggs after basking to transfer the heat. BP's can definitely incubate their own eggs, but we're better at it! :gj:

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Just to let you know that the twitching does not actually increase the heat in the mother's coils. The mother actually has to leave to bask and come back to warm the eggs. She either coils tightly around the eggs or loosely to control the humidity.

If the eggs are left on a hot spot in the cage, they will die.

I agree, separate the BP's. It's best for them, and you want whats best for them right?

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Originally Posted by Beardedragon

Thats not true, everyone that i have talked to that has done Maternal breeding has had a 200% hatch rate, i think Rapture did it too. Im planing on doing ONLY maternal breeding, ball pythons are just fine incubating their own eggs.

Sorry for the rant, the whole maternal thing is a hugely debated thing.

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How do you have a 200% hatch rate?

Why are you choosing maternal incubation over artificial? My goal is to get my females eating as quickly as possible, with maternal incubation, they go another two months without eating - my priority is the health of all my animals, not just the eggs.

I'm not an expert and I don't claim to be but I'm pretty sure those who have written the books are pretty well informed. If pythons can reach a higher temperature than their surroundings then they are "producing" heat. I don't know about them being better at incubating than us and I agree in the hot spot they're dead...or what 200% hatch rate is...They definietly need a hot spot, but that doesn't mean that they can't generate heat by twitching their muscles, it's the same thing as when your teeth chatter or you shiver when you're cold. The book says they leave to bask and come back as well but thats a seperate issue from the twitching and raising their body temperature. I don't know, who cares. I don't suggest letting the females raise there eggs for 2 reasons, one is the fact that I want them eating asap, and the other is I woul like access to the eggs without fighting a female to make changes if something is wrong, heat humidity, whatever.

Twitching/shivering is your body's way of converting the chemical energy stored as fat or nutrients from your stomach into heat by using it. "Fat/calorie burning produces heat, one of the reasons you get hot when you do physical activity and eventually need to sweat. Just a little bio 101.

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Originally Posted by Pythonman

I have read alot of literature that says bp's can "raise their body temp above that of their surrounding area by twitching thier muscles". They will also return to the eggs after basking to transfer the heat. BP's can definitely incubate their own eggs, but we're better at it! :gj:

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Actually, there was a study done that determined neither ball nor Angolan pythons have the body mass to actually generate heat sufficient for incubation. I will dig it up & put a copy on our server for those who would like to see it.

Female ball pythons have been observed to leave their eggs & bask in order to thermoregulate. The Barkers also have a great section on this in their book, and recommend temperatures of 90 degrees for females left to maternally incubate.

I, too, don't understand how you can have a "200%" hatch rate, as was previously stated, but from what I've gleaned from other people's experience, maternal incubation can be hit-or-miss, and requires an attentive keeper to monitor environmental factors the whole way through.

We use artificial incubation exclusively, and hatch all of our viable eggs that way.

Just my $.02...

K~

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Originally Posted by Pythonman

Twitching/shivering is your body's way of converting the chemical energy stored as fat or nutrients from your stomach into heat by using it. "Fat/calorie burning produces heat, one of the reasons you get hot when you do physical activity and eventually need to sweat. Just a little bio 101.

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That's mammalian physiology, not reptilian. ;)

Actually, the larger python species (Burms, rocks, retics) have been shown to metabolically thermoregulate by twitching their muscles to raise body heat (accomplished through burning calories)...but smaller snakes just don't have the muscle mass to successfully accomplish this throughout the duration of incubation, making supplemental heat necessary.

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Originally Posted by KLG

Actually, the larger python species (Burms, rocks, retics) have been shown to metabolically thermoregulate by twitching their muscles to raise body heat (accomplished through burning calories)...but smaller snakes just don't have the muscle mass to successfully accomplish this throughout the duration of incubation, making supplemental heat necessary.

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Thank you Ms. Kara! :love:

I thought it's general chemisty, when calories are "burned", heat is given off (chemical energy to kinetic energy), it doesn't matter what's burning, fat, calories, gasoline, Eli Manning's throwing hand...KLG Please post it, I'd love to read it, maybe what I have is outdated. Just to clear it up, I wasn't saying that they create enough heat to incubate without heat or anything like that, just that I had read that they do twitch to help the incubation process which generates heat, not instead of basking and returing to the eggs.

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Originally Posted by KLG

Actually, the larger python species (Burms, rocks, retics) have been shown to metabolically thermoregulate by twitching their muscles to raise body heat (accomplished through burning calories)...but smaller snakes just don't have the muscle mass to successfully accomplish this throughout the duration of incubation, making supplemental heat necessary.

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It sounds like you're saying they do it, but they just don't do it enough to successfully incubate, in which case I have never disagreed with that. I was just saying that they can produce heat by twitching and do that while incubating, not that that is all they do to heat the eggs. Thats all. :please: