You guys ever heard of CRACKING you snakes back?

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Originally Posted by giaach

So I have a friend that works at a local Petland. I told him about my new spider and he was stoked to see him. So today I brought him in to check out.
Lawrence has owned snakes since he was about 7 and has worked with Ball Pythons, Cobras, Diamond Backs, Anacondas, Retics, Boas the list goes on... We started taking about caring for BPs and he asked if I give him baths, or crack his back. I was like "yeah sometimes I let him soak in warm water to get a bad shed off, but cracking their back?!" He looked at me and was like "yea, just like you sometimes stand up and stretch your back out, snakes need that too." I was a little shocked but after we gave Kingsley bath to help him loosen up any blockage Lawrence proceeded to massage his sides (gently) and then once he was relaxed he slowly cracked his spine back into alignment. I put my fingers on the sides to feel it and I swear, it felt just like cracking your neck or back, I was amazed! Apparently not only is it good for overall health, but it helps them grow, and digest their food. Oh and by the way Kingsley loooved it, I have never seen a bp so calm and relaxed.

Sooo, Im just wondering if you guys do anything like that with your snakes?

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My god keep your snake away from your freind :O.He might have just injured your snake PERMANATLY and possibly broke some bones.I would not advise doing that again

Alright, I see all of your concerned remarks, but seriously, a guy that has spent his whole life with reptiles and has been trained to handle all different types of snakes sounds pretty qualified to me. The guy is not just working at petland he's actually a biology major with a concentration in zoology. I think he knows what's safe and what's not. Also, there where no defensive strikes or quick movements from the snake to signal pain or discomfort. While I may be new to snakes I think that just because somebody is offering new techniques to care for ball pythons, he or she should not be shoot down because their methods are not common practice.

Besides, where would someone learn something like this if it wasn't safe. No zoologist or herpetologist is going to suggest something that could potentially harm an animal, that would be down right ludicrous.

The reasons he outlined for ‘cracking’ the snakes back sound very on par with chiropractics. I don’t want to discuss chiropractics as they apply to humans, but I will say; in the wild there are no snake chiropractors, so, in the interests of respecting Mother Nature’s guidance, I’d not ‘crack’ my snakes back. If there is something out of whack, he will know and do something about it. Provide a round log for him to curl around and give a good squeeze, and odds are he will do the job himself. IMO.

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Originally Posted by giaach

Besides, where would someone learn something like this if it wasn't safe. No zoologist or herpetologist is going to suggest something that could potentially harm an animal, that would be down right ludicrous.

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I'm not questioning your friends sincerity. However, when next you speak, I'd invite you to ask in a conversational way about where he learned the technique, what medical/biology book he read about them in, or what his thoughts on chiropractics are. You seem to be assuming that he applied these techniques as part of an exercise he learned as part of his zoology training.

Actually, Giaach "qualified professionals" offer up and practice advice that is quite harmful to the animals in their care.

I don't look down on or shoot down anybody just because they have a new idea - but in cases like this where serious physical harm could come to one of my animals I am skeptical for the sake of my animal!

Zoologist does not mean chiropractor. Animal chiropractic care is often a completely seperate course and area of study from any other type of care.

I would not allow a veterinarian to attempt to train one of my animals because they are not behaviorists or trainers, they may be medical professionals and qualified (for the most part) to treat and care for an injured or sick animal but that does not mean they are qualified to do anything else.

A professional in one area does not mean a professional in all areas that could be related to their studies. When it comes to potential physical harm I look to training, qualifications, studies, PROOF.. not just someone who has and has handled lots of critters.

JMHO

Edit: Sorry if anything was repeated from the post above, I took a long time to type it out

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Originally Posted by giaach

Alright, I see all of your concerned remarks, but seriously, a guy that has spent his whole life with reptiles and has been trained to handle all different types of snakes sounds pretty qualified to me. The guy is not just working at petland he's actually a biology major with a concentration in zoology. I think he knows what's safe and what's not. Also, there where no defensive strikes or quick movements from the snake to signal pain or discomfort. While I may be new to snakes I think that just because somebody is offering new techniques to care for ball pythons, he or she should not be shoot down because their methods are not common practice.

Besides, where would someone learn something like this if it wasn't safe. No zoologist or herpetologist is going to suggest something that could potentially harm an animal, that would be down right ludicrous.

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Sorry bro, that dont mean much to me, or any of the rest of us.

How do you know that he has studied on this, or has had medical and scientific proof that this benifits the snake?

Just because he has a major in Biology, mainly in Zoology, doesnt mean much either along the lines of that. Ive talked to "Exoctic" reptile vets that have told me use a HOT ROCK for a snake. :thumbsdow

If it was me, I wouldnt let him try anything on my snakes like that, and I waould also question his "knowledge".

My :twocents:

In snakes every vertebrae has a set of ribs attached to it, all of that structure of bones have ligaments supporting their proper placement, muscle attachments, etc. It's a highly complex and very exact skeletal system.

I'm not slamming your friend but if he's a student, majoring in biology, working at Petland he should know enough to not do more than his education allows. A bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

Personally I'm not letting anyone who doesn't have years upon years of training and real experience, who can't show me studies by recognized authorities, mess around with my snake's back.

I understand where you are all coming from. Believe me, if I didn't trust this guy I would have never let him even hold him. While we were talking he told me how snakes do the same thing in the wild. This guy isn't in his early 20s being a cocky college student. He actually went back to school after working at the columbus zoo and all around the americas for 5 or so years. What the snakes do in the wild involves 2 trees or branches. They wrap their tail around one branch and reach out for the other and basically stretch themselves out, re-aligning their back. Sometimes they do it when your holding them. They might wrap tightly around your arm.
When I said cracking the snakes back, thats not a literal term. He held the snake with both hands, massages its sides and then slid his fingers down the length of the snake back and by doing this ever so gently it aligned the snakes spine.
He actually stopped doing it and the snake took matters into his own hands and proceeded to stretch himself out the way he had described.

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Originally Posted by giaach

He actually stopped doing it and the snake took matters into his own hands and proceeded to stretch himself out the way he had described.

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Or, maybe your snake was in so much pain the he was stretching himself out to try to relieve it.

If your friend traveled all around the country for 5 years then he probably wasn't any one place for very long. If he wasn't in any one place for very long he may well have had a problem keeping a job. If he had a problem keeping a job he may not be so knowledgable as you think.

Chances are he didn't do any damage to your snake however, as with the others, I'd recommend against further "adjustments."

Have you ever had a pinched nerve in your spine? I have. It hurts a lot but does not always impair my ability to move or lift or any other daily function. But the pain is there. Snakes don't show pain the way mammals do and I seriously doubt if you would know if your snake had a nerve pinched between one or two or three of four or a dozen vertebra.

I think your friend thinks he knows more than he does and you, being a loyal friend, are not doing the best you can by your snake.

I've only been keeping snakes a few decades but I've never seen or heard of a chiropractic study on adjusting their spines.

Also, as far as I know, ball pythons don't spend a lot of time stretching between tree branches. That right there should have clued you that something was off with your friends knowledge.

the cracking is merely the nitrogen gas in the joint escaping, i wouldnt do it intentionaly but ive heard my snakes do it while being handled, but if they do it themselves thats fine putting undue pressure on a snakes spine is just asking for trouble IMO all it takes is too much pressure and it would easily be a broken rib or even worse its spine.

a snakes spine does not need alligning by anyone just look at their bone structure and you will see there is virtualy no movement between two vertebra, whereas say 20 its a lot more. each vertebra adds more range of movement.

Seriously people dont try this!!!

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Have you ever had a pinched nerve in your spine? I have. It hurts a lot but does not always impair my ability to move or lift or any other daily function. But the pain is there.

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Oh man, I hear you on that one. I get them from time to time. My friend gets them worse and they are enough to debilitate her and she can't even go to work.
Since snakes can't say "ouch, this hurts.." I don't think that we should assume that they need their back cracked. Their ribcages are so fragile really..
I have actually handled my BPs before, and felt a popping/cracking sound. I was not trying to pop them or anything, but it happened as they moved at liberty in my hands. Would I deliberately crack their backs? No. I see it as something that, yes, might happen as a snake moves about. But not something that humans should be messing around with.