Large vs Small Breeder

This is a great topic. One thing that you have to remember is that all "big" breeders were once "small" breeders. The guys that transition from a smaller hobby to a bigger business are the ones that have not only become effecient at taking care of animals but also have learned how to care for their clients. I always say that to me it doesn't matter what size collection, or name a person has, I look for what kind of person they are. I look at their track record with other people that I know. Even snaller breeders have a track record. I know that it's hard for the guy that's just starting out, they need to develope a history of business and you have to start somewhere. Maybe that's when you just have to have a feel for that person. It's funny being in the business for over twenty years now, I've seen a lot of small breeders that came and went because of their disregard of their clients and animals, I've also seen a lot of "big" breeders make a huge splash in the business and then within a few years just dissapear leaving a wake of people that have been screwed.
I guess my view is support the person not the size of that person in the business. And if you're a smalll breeder aspiring to be a larger name in the bisiness, just make it very attractive for people to deal with you. Make your service and qualiity at a level that people just can't help theirselves but to deal with you over the "big" dogs! Or just deal with me (just kidding)Sorry for the long ramble:) Brian(BHB)

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Originally Posted by BHB

This is a great topic. One thing that you have to remember is that all "big" breeders were once "small" breeders. The guys that transition from a smaller hobby to a bigger business are the ones that have not only become effecient at taking care of animals but also have learned how to care for their clients. I always say that to me it doesn't matter what size collection, or name a person has, I look for what kind of person they are. I look at their track record with other people that I know. Even snaller breeders have a track record. I know that it's hard for the guy that's just starting out, they need to develope a history of business and you have to start somewhere. Maybe that's when you just have to have a feel for that person. It's funny being in the business for over twenty years now, I've seen a lot of small breeders that came and went because of their disregard of their clients and animals, I've also seen a lot of "big" breeders make a huge splash in the business and then within a few years just dissapear leaving a wake of people that have been screwed.
I guess my view is support the person not the size of that person in the business. And if you're a smalll breeder aspiring to be a larger name in the bisiness, just make it very attractive for people to deal with you. Make your service and qualiity at a level that people just can't help theirselves but to deal with you over the "big" dogs! Or just deal with me (just kidding)Sorry for the long ramble:) Brian(BHB)

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Brian,

I definitely agree with your thoughts and representing your business in a manner that appeals to customers. I just got my BA in business and understand how important customer service can be in this or any industry. I've also been victim to some horrible customer service in this industry and I promised myself never do this if I were ever in business.

I posted this thread as more a general testing the waters on peoples thought process before buying a snake. I don't think I will ever be able to catch up to the "big" boys nor am I out there to do so. I'm just someone who is fascinated by the possibilities of creating a combo morph.

At the same time I would like to have the ability to sell some of my snakes off that don't fit into my plans anymore.

So how do you build a track record; do you buy from a bigger breeder in hopes that they will put in a good word for you? Do you become active in forums to try and put across what kind of a person you are and why you're in the business?

Edit: Sorry for my long rant, I've been thinking about this for a while and have some free time at work today :) Seems like the small time guys that get into this now will be forever playing catch up.

I agree with Brian in that character counts far more to me than the size of their collection or volume of sales. That said, I tend to support small and mid size breeders (like me) that tend to have more invested in every individual animal they produce. Also, for me, I tend to feel that you sometimes can get better service and a better overall experience from those that do it as a side hobby and aren't so dependent on making x amount of sales a month. That is not to say there aren't big breeders out there with sterling reps and high quality, Of course there are. I, personally, just like the connection that is formed when you deal exclusively with a smaller group of people who are more likely to remember you and get in touch occasionally to inquire how things are going. In the end, it comes down to whether I find you to be honest and trustworthy (it also helps if you have smoking hot animals ha ha)

My .02

Cheers,
Kat

Most of the time you can do some kind of research on the person on the internet in some way, shape, or form. I just today bought a animal from a medium, I would call, breeder, and I was able to find the information that I needed to feel comfortable giving my money to them. Another thing to is if you are buying Hets. I would not feel comfortable buying high dollar Hets from a small breeder, say anything over $1000 but thats just me. Like I said you have to feel comfortable with the person you are dealing with and 99% of the time when you talk to them you will get that little gut feeling that tells you yes or no and go with that. Everyone gets burned now and then but if you do things like, not paying with cash or money orders, you should be fine with whom ever you deal with.

I agree with littleindiangirl.

Regularly updated professional looking website is the most important thing for smaller breeders, it doesn't have to be flashy as long as it got updated info on each animals for sale. You won't believe that there're people in different countries who don't mind to buy from smaller breeder if the animals are of good quality.

I'm talking from an oversea buyer's perspective. It doesn't matter that smaller breeder can't export, they can sell animals to people in different country. Importer like me do have broker who keep animals for us, do the paperwork and then ship the shipment to us. I don't mind sending money up front to smaller breeder as long as I check their references, people that they've sold and/or bought animals from, first.

Lastly, this is what I want to tell smaller breeders. Please don't be afraid to deal with oversea potential customer. Just make sure you have their money in your account first though. I know there're some kind of scam too, so you must ask reference from your potential oversea customer as well. You never know that you might have a potential long term customer. Your first deal might be small because oversea customer don't want to take a risk and spend too much money. But if they're back for the second time, it usually will be a much bigger deal than the first one...this is from my own experience.

Sorry for the long post + bad english :bow:

Over the years here, I have gotten the chance to get to know a lot of breeders, from the hobbiest level to the professional level. There are members here who are just starting out (Joanna, Ed (Freakie_Frog), Rapture, Larry Suttles, GA_Ball_Pythons, Rich (Spainard),etc) who I feel I have gotten to know over the years that I would definitely buy from if they had a nice animal that I was lookig for.

I purchased from Justin Kobylka last year (I actually first approached him about a het clown almost two years ago, and brought Oliver home in the fall of '06) when not many people knew who he was. Mainly because I had contacted him when I was just starting out, as he was a breeder in my state, and asked him for some help (sexing some animals, before I had learned how to do so).

He was professional in his communications to me, his website was clean and easy to navigate, and I got to see his breeding stock first hand. Additionally, I asked people who I trusted (Adam, I remember specifically asking about Justin) to see if they'd heard of him. Adam said he had seen him posting on forums and he had nothing but positive impressions of him.

I purchased many of my normal CH females from Will Bird (for those of you who know my collection, Mackenzie, Echo, J-Lo, Pretzel are just a few of the animals I acquired from him). He's a smaller breeder. I asked Kara about him, and while she had never done business with him, she knew people who had and gave me her endorsement. Through my research on him, I found out that he was also the President of the KY Herp Society.

At the same time, I've purchased several animals from Adam, I look forward to purchasing from Kara, and from Tim Bailey in the future.

I will never support anyone, no matter how nice the animals they have, if they are known for being less than moral, if they have proven not to be there when something goes wrong.

I hope that my participation on the forums helps others to get to know me, get to know my animals, and hopefully, people will want to buy from me. I have great mentors here to emulate. And I've worked in service industries before, and I've always followed "treat your customer the way you'd expect to be treated as a customer".

i have alloways recived better service from small breeders than large breeders. i have made purchases from Ralph davis, mike wilbanks, pete kahl, Rich isle, jeff ronn. and they all seem to have the same problems they all charged more than a hobbyest for the same quality snakes. and one of the people aboves snakes came with mites. ( do not ask who )small breeders have alloways answered my e-mails quickly usually with in the hour. as everyone above took a few days. i will aloways give my money to a small hobbyest before a pro mainly because you can get the same quality animals from them for a fair price you are not just buying a brand name for the same thing. before i have bought from many people i just go on the boi and do a background on them if they check out by more than 10 people with in the last year i will buy from them. i have only ever been burned by a PRO breeder.

Bravo!! Well said, you have to become part of the community to become known in that community. In the past that meant going to shows, putting a pricelist out, spending countless hours on the phone networking. While those things still matter it's more about being invovled in the cool forums, having a cool website (please no insults.lol) and making yourself known to that communtity. You really can't expect anyone to buy from someone that hey never have heard of when there are a bunch of people with the same animal that they have heard of. I think in a lot of ways the playing feild has now leveled and the "big" breeders don't have the advantage that they once did. In my opinion this is a good thing, it makes the "big" guys realize that they aren't as special as they may have thought they were.
Bottom line is that as a proffesional breeder I would love anyones business, but what really matters is that the business is being done by whoever with whoever. We are all our own best clients, I make money if the smaller breeder makes money. If the smaller breeder can't sell their animals then why would they want to buy more???? As long as the money is in the industry we all benifit no matter who you decide to spend it with. Brian(BHB)

www.myspace.com/bhbreptiles
www.snakebytes.tv

I have owned BP's for about 10 years. I bought only one as a pet, my first, quickly fell in love and rescued quite a few. Some I have adopted out, some I have kept as pets.

I did a HUGE amount of research, watched how different people (breeders) interacted on various boards....now it's time for me to buy...so far there are only two breeders I would feel completely confident buying from..

one is one of the biggest guys around (Bob Clark) and although we have never purchased anything from him yet...his emails are VERY prompt (usually within the hour) and he even offered suggestions on breeding our burmese...we plan on purchasing a burm from him within the next couple of weeks...a surprise for my boyfriend so shhhhhhh! lol

the other...Adam, from 8ball....I'll be purchasing a few hets from him next week... (can't WAIT for those taxes to come back!!)....The way he is here, offering help whenever he can, his website has become hugely interactive and he offers great animals without ripping my wallet out of my pocket...even over the computer, I feel like I am speaking to someone REAL...someone who not only cares about what I can afford, but cares for his animals...not just making a dollar....that goes a LONG way with me

My thanks to everyone who participated in the thread all your responses were very helpful in figuring out the thoughts I was having.

If I'm lucky enough to sell some snakes to buy some more snakes I'll be a happy camper:)

Keeping bps will always be something I love doing no matter what the scale...

I think above all thats the secret to success in this biz, love what you do or don't bother doing it :)

Thanks Again to Everyone