force feeding advice?

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So our girl STILL hasn't eaten since late Oct/early Nov

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1# I would recommend you to buy a scale (kitchen scale will do) and monitor your BP's weight.

2# Beside the health issue that have played a part in your BP’s refusals could you tell us more about her husbandry?

What type of enclosure do you use?
How big is your enclosure?
Is your enclosure in a low traffic area?
What are your temps (cool & warm side)?
What is your humidity?
What type of thermometer/hygrometer do you use (dial,stick,or digital)?
What kind of hides do you provide (log, homemade, cubbyholes etc) and how many do you have?
Are your hides tight (all side touching your BP's body) and identical?
How often do you handle your BP?

3# Force feeding should be done as a last resort when everything else has failed and the animal's health is declining.

i posted this picture in another thread I posted about the humidity in the tank.. but here it is..

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...s/PC201735.jpg

Don't mind the little thermometer on the glass - we don't use it. It's just kind of "there".

We have her in a 20L glass tank. (I am not so sure I want to have her in the tank, but I'm not pulling as much rank as I had hoped I would as far as switching her to a tub..)

Her tank is in the office, so it's a "medium" traffic area? It use to get a lot more poeple in there, but not so much anymore.

My temps are good. Usually. About 92 on the hot, and 85 or so on the cool. (Although, the past few days, i've noticed the hot spiking up pretty high... we've been looking into a thermostat or something else to control it a bit more, we just havent' decided on exactly what we're going to do yet...)

Humidity is an issue. See my post http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=58238.

We used to have plastic log-looking hides for her... and she loved them. Then she got sick, we read a lot more about the husbandry and all other aspects, and put two plastic bowls in there that were more suitable for her size.. but now she barely goes in either of them. I don't know if it's because she liked the other ones better?? or becuase she can't get inside..

Right now, we have to handle her everyday - atleast once. She is getting meds from 1-3xs a day that we are giving to her orally..


We have the digital thermometer w/probe from acurite (You can see it all tipped over in the picture) to tell us the accurate temps and humidity.


As far as the eating goes, I really think it has to do more with whatever is wrong with her, more so that where/how she is being kept. She ate GREAT before she got sick. The vet thinks it was an ear infection, I thought it was an RI... but it's been almost 2 months.. she IS doing much better. Her muscles are stronger, she seems a bit feistier... but it seems to be taking forever. I don't know how long to wait before we call the vet again - for the 3rd time. I guess I'm not TOO concerned with her eating, but the longer she goes, the concern builds up. She is just a baby, after all..

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As far as the eating goes, I really think it has to do more with whatever is wrong with her, more so that where/how she is being kept. She ate GREAT before she got sick.

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While her being sick has likely played a big part, know that overtime improper husbandry can cause stress which can lead to refusal.

Right now your priority is to get her to eat, so here is what I would suggest before thinking about force feeding or assist feeding.

Get a 15 quarts tub

Get new hides: Your hides are still too big; this will give you an idea of how hides should be http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...highlight=hide

I usually use the following if this helps

From hatchling up to about 200/250 grams I use 6 inches diameter plastic flowerpot saucers.
From 200/250 grams to 400/450 grams I use plastic bowls
From 400/450 grams up to 900/950 I use large creature cubbyhole
From 900/950 grams to 1500/1550 grams I use x-large creature cubbyhole
And for 1500/1550 grams and over I use small kitty litter pans.

Once you move her let her settle for a week to 10 days with no handling if possible.

Note: Is she in her water dish on the pic? If so check for mites, she could also use it as an hide because her hides don't make her feel secure enough.

All I have is a little bowl-type kitchen scale. Honeslty, I don't know if it shows grams.. She certainly doens' look like she's lost any weight, and she just got done (thank the goddess!) with a shed.

With all due respect about the hides, the ones we had in there before, one was very snug, the other was bigger than the bowls we have now, and she loved it. These ones are smaller, and I get all excited on the rare occasion that she gets in them. Maybe she thinks they're boring..lol..? Maybe plastic cups would be better now??

Yes she was in her waterdish. That was the only time she's been in there, as far as i know. That's why I took the picture, because I'd never seen her there before. I'm always looking at her water and on her belly for mites - and so far, so good.

There is also this thought....

As I mentioned, we are giving her oral meds 1-3 times a day, every day. Every time we open the tank up, it messes with her temps and humidity. We're in and out of there all the time - so along with stressing her out:confused:, we mess with all the inside factors of her enclosure.

I feel pretty overwhelmed right now......:(

How much longer do you have to give it meds? Have you seen any symtoms lately similar as what prompted you to take it to the vet in the first place? In my experiance (15 years of snake keeping) your animal needs to be left alone for at least a week. Cover its enclosure with a black sheet and leave it be for a while. Provide ample water for its little vacation from you (maybe a larger dish even). Than after 7-10 days offer a smaller than normal meal. If it doesnt eat repeat cycle as ness. I convert all my animals to frozen and the balls can and often do go for quite some time without eating. This was hard for me to get used to as Ive kept more burms than balls and they would eat like goldfish (anything and everything). These animals more than likely eat much less in the wild than they do in captivity and have survived for millenia. Make sure your temps are right and then give the little girl a vaca.


just my 2Cents

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Originally Posted by JuliaGoolia

Assist feeding? Okay... I guess I'm new to that terminology...

What is that?

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Julia,
This is a write-up I did in another thread a few weeks ago concerning Assist feeding. I hope it helps.

Rick,
At this stage with your hatchlings, I would try assist feeding (NOT force feeding). By this I mean, take a P/K or F/T mouse hopper, and stick the head of the prey into the mouth of the baby ball python. Allow the nose of the nose to just touch the back of the mouth, and keep the snake's 2 jaws in contact with the mouse. Then GENTLY tug the mouse in an outward direction (as if taking it out of the snakes mouth). This will cause the backward curved teeth of the snake to "latch" the mouse, making it less easy for the snake to release the meal. Set the snake back in to it's enclosure, and leave it alone for an hour. Go back and check on the snake, and my bet is the mouse will be gone. This has had great success for me over the last few years. I think some snakes just need to get the food in their mouth, and their feeding response kicks in.

Note: I had a pinstripe female that I had to do this too this year. After assist feeding her three times, she still would not eat n her own. However, the next 2 assist feedings, she would bite down and wrap around the prey as soon as I got her mouth open. After 5 assist feedings, she tears up the rat pups like she never had a problem.


With that said, I have also mentioned in other posts by people that have fasting snakes, that I had a 1600 gram female (I beleive she was wild caught, even though I bought her as a Long Term Captive) that fasted for 55 weeks and lost 700 grams. She finally started eating mice, and ate them for a year before switching to rats. After one year of eating, she went from 900 grams to 2300 grams. Good luck with your little guy, and I hope he gets back on the food for you.

open mouth, insert foot. I stand corrected.:oops::bow:

(seems a little off-topic for the thread, now, though...)

We went out to Menards and bought a few different sizes of pot saucers.. Made sure they were the opaque ones and not clear..

We cut out a door on each, and honestly, when we put them in the tank, I wasn't so sure if she would fit in..height-wise.

But our little girl has been in there from about 20 minutes after we put them in there yesterday to right now, almost noon.

Here she is, in all her glory.. well, what you can see of her, anyway..:):D

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...s/PC251757.jpg

Heres a good video tutorial on how to assist feed not force feed. Hope this helps...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=WaL_eoQa16s

Just wanted to show you and others...not my video. thumps up for the user..:gj: