Frosted rats

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Originally Posted by mlededee

my mom puts a straw into a ziplock bag with food in it, closes the bag around the straw, sucks the air out and then quickly pulls out the straw and snaps the hole closed. i gotta tell you though--i just can't see myself doing that with a bag of rats...

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LOL I do that too...just figured everyone would get too grossed out if I said so. :D

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

And yes, if the snakes will accept them, the freezer-burned food is perfectly safe. That goes for people food, too. It's safe to eat. Look it up if you don't believe me, lol

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And just as full of nutrients as non-freezer burned? No thank you. I won't eat freezer-burned food, and if I were feeding frozen, I wouldn't offer it to my snakes.

Moisture sublimates out of the frozen food, it's not thawing.

It is safe. Again, let your fingers do the walking through Google. lol

It's not missing any nutrients, either! It's only missing moisture. It's partially dehydrated, not spoiled. It's oxidized (which causes the flavor alteration), but it has nothing to do with bacterial growth. You will not suffer any ill effects from eating freezer burned food.

A bit about frozen food:
http://www.foodproductdesign.com/articles/0197CS.html

For the record, I thaw rodents in hot tap water, as quickly as possible. There is little chance for bacteria to grow. I think setting them on the counter until they reach room temperature is more likely to result in minor spoilage, and as I understand it, we've been recommended not to thaw our OWN food that way, either. (It should be thawed in a refrigerator).
A dip in hot water does the trick just fine, and then I have a warm prey item for the snakes, which they seem to appreciate.

I've heard people talk about the prey falling apart more readily this way, but in my experience that has everything to do with the quality of the prey before it was frozen, and whether it had ever been thawed before, rather than with the warm water dip. I have noticed that twice-frozen rodents certainly fall apart.
When I've frozen rodents I raised myself, I put them directly into the freezer as soon as they're dead. They thaw out intact and sturdy in hot water.

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

It's not missing any nutrients, either! It's only missing moisture. It's partially dehydrated, not spoiled. It's oxidized (which causes the flavor alteration)

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This is a contridiction - dehydrated means missing nutrients what do you think comes out with the moisture? Oxidation destroys nutrients.

Why do you think the moisture comes out of the meat in the first place? It is caused by a temp difference pulling the moisture out (ie. thawing - yes not completely but enough to cause a change in the makeup of the meat)

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For the record, I thaw rodents in hot tap water, as quickly as possible. There is little chance for bacteria to grow.

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Your first post in this thread said it takes 30-40 mintues to thaw a rodent...this IS enough time for bacteria to grow.

WingedWolf's science is correct...freezer burn can happen on any improperly sealed meat, and it's nothing to do with thawing or bacteria. The contents of the package are perfectly safe, albeit unappetizing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freezer_burn

so what does everyone do with a Frozen rat shipment............I have been just keeping all the rats in a zip lock bag and thawing as i needed them...........I never really have any problems with burn. do you guys really put each rat in a separate zip lock?

ACTUALLY... freezer burn does create a "less healthy" meal than a non freezer burned meal. The reason all comes down to the oxidation. The oxidation process turns the fats and oils into peroxides and aldehyde's, that even though may not cause immediate damage to the snake if eaten, has been attributed to causing cholesterol problems in the long run... Once again the old saying goes, you are what you eat. If what you (or your snake eats) eats an unhealthy meal, you (or your snake) will not be as well off, than say, you (or your snake) ate a healthy meal.

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

the freezer-burned food is perfectly safe. That goes for people food, too. It's safe to eat. Look it up if you don't believe me, lol

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Hmm.. I would definately get fired if I told my boss that I had served people any food that had freezer burn...

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Originally Posted by Gooseman

ACTUALLY... freezer burn does create a "less healthy" meal than a non freezer burned meal. The reason all comes down to the oxidation. The oxidation process turns the fats and oils into peroxides and aldehyde's, that even though may not cause immediate damage to the snake if eaten, has been attributed to causing cholesterol problems in the long run... Once again the old saying goes, you are what you eat. If what you (or your snake eats) eats an unhealthy meal, you (or your snake) will not be as well off, than say, you (or your snake) ate a healthy meal.

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Aha, an actual point...can you cite a reference for that? And are you sure that it translates over into reptilian physiology, or is it based on mammal studies?
It would make a good argument for not making a habit of feeding freezer burned items, but still doesn't seem a valid reason to chuck the rodents in the garbage.
Come to think of it...does anyone know of a case of arteriosclerosis in snakes? I found one instance of it, but it was attributed to metastisized cancer.

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

Aha, an actual point...can you cite a reference for that? And are you sure that it translates over into reptilian physiology, or is it based on mammal studies?
It would make a good argument for not making a habit of feeding freezer burned items, but still doesn't seem a valid reason to chuck the rodents in the garbage.
Come to think of it...does anyone know of a case of arteriosclerosis in snakes? I found one instance of it, but it was attributed to metastisized cancer.

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Here you go! This is only one site I found... but it's a state university so I'll let them do the talking and quote them...

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Originally Posted by Washington State University

Freezer burn may contribute to fats becoming rancid. All fats and oils will become rancid given enough exposure to air (or sunlight and heat). If there is a putrid "off" odor, discard the food. Eating rancid food won't make you sick, but it may be unhealthy in the long run. Rancid fat contains chemicals called peroxides and aldehydes that can damage cells and may even encourage cholesterol to clog arteries.

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http://pan.co.yakima.wa.us/wsuext/f&...ezersavvy.html