Bumblebee's

I kept forgetting that the bees base was spider x pastel. That's what i get for staying up so late!

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Originally Posted by Roswell

Bees are double homozygous.

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Bees are heterozygous pastels and either hetero or homozygous spider (as far as we know, they are visually identical). The precentages of offspring are completely dependent on whether the animal carries both spider alleles or not.

If the spider alleles are heterozygous, then the offspring with a normal can potentially be SsPp (bee), Sspp (spider), ssPp (pastel) or sspp (normal).

If homozgous, the offspring can only be SsPp (bee) or Sspp (spider).

So it will only produce bees and spiders?:S

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Originally Posted by ctrlfreq

homozygous spider (as far as we know, they are visually identical)

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I am not aware of any proof that this animal exists?

So until it is proven the ratio is still 25% Bee, 25% Spider, 25% Pastel and 25% Normal (per egg)

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Originally Posted by Sasquatch Art

I actually believe it is

50% Spider
50% Pastel

Those are for each egg of course...

I could be wrong....

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That is correct. Each egg has a 50% chance of being pastel and a 50% chance of being spider. So when these overlap you wind up with the 25% Pastel, 25% Spider, 25% normal and 25% bee. So you weren't completely wrong, just about the outcomes of the percentage of each egg.
A killer bee x normal produces 50% bees and 50% pastels.

Looks like a good square to me Matti!

The important thing to remember is that spider and pastel are two different genes so each has its own normal version. There are many different "normal" genes.

I'm not sure exactly what "double dominant" means. But the bees are double hets for two dominant type mutations (pastel being co-dominant and spider to be determined – possibly dominant).

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Originally Posted by lord jackel

I am not aware of any proof that this animal exists? So until it is proven...

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Whether we know it exists or not doesn't change the statistical probability of such a genetic pairing. In fact, knowledge of such probabilities during breeding are, in the absense of a complete genome map, the only way to infer that one exists.

That said, I wonder how prevalent spider x spider crossings (or any SxS crossing for that matter) are since it's a co-dom without a known visual super. Are such crossings generally avoided by larger breeders due to a lack of a visual super or because of a higher precentage of bad eggs? If not, have any breeders done in-depth tracking of the resulting offspring looking for these imperceptible supers?

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Originally Posted by ctrlfreq

Whether we know it exists or not doesn't change the statistical probability of such a genetic pairing. In fact, knowledge of such probabilities during breeding are, in the absense of a complete genome map, the only way to infer that one exists.

That said, I wonder how prevalent spider x spider crossings (or any SxS crossing for that matter) are since it's a co-dom without a known visual super. Are such crossings generally avoided by larger breeders due to a lack of a visual super or because of a higher precentage of bad eggs? If not, have any breeders done in-depth tracking of the resulting offspring looking for these imperceptible supers?

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While I agree with your thought process I disagree that we should use the Homo Spider assumption in genetic calculations. This would be assuming a genetic makeup that so far has not been proven...so from a breeding supposition we must assume (until proven otherwise) that the Spider gene in a Bee are Het. Unless you are specifically testing the theory of a Homo Spider (in your bee or other cross) I am not sure why you would want to assume otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Roswell

Bumblebee Spider • Bumblebee Ball Pythons are the first "double dominant" morph. These are a combination of the Pastel Jungle and Spider genes. .....

Killer Bee Spider • ..... Killer Bee Spiders are a Super Pastel Jungle version of the Bumblebee Spider "designer" morph. ......

(found these definitions on BPM Genetics Lab)

http://www.ballpythonmorphs.com/genetics.html

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Dominance, co-dominance, and recessive are gene types. it has nothing to do with whether a snake is homo and het for a certain gene.

Heterozygous means it has only one gene for a certain genotype. Example being a pastel, or in recessive traits, a het albino. Homozygous or "super" as some people call it means that both gene's of a certain genotype are present. The phenotype, or physical appearance are changed and usually enhanced in co-dom's such as the super pastel. Recessive traits also only show when in the homozygous form, such as an albino.

When they say bumblebees are the first "double dominant" morph, they only mean it has 2 dominant gene types. The pastel being co-dom, and the spider being dom, or co-dom, depending on who you talk with, as opposed to recessive. Neither is a super or homo, so both gene pairing still have a wild gene.


Pastel - Pp
Super pastel - PP
Spider - Ss
Bumblebee - PpSs
Killer bee or Super pastel spider - PPSs

An example of a double recessive would be a Albino Piebald. Though again, Recessive phenotypes only show up in the Homo or super form when both genes for that genotype are present.

Het albino - Aa
Het Peid - Pp
Albino Het Pied - AAPp
Pied het Albino - PPAa
Albino Pied - PPAA

Robin

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Originally Posted by Bright202

So it will only produce bees and spiders?:S

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No, as other have said, you will also get pastels and normals.

Bee's - SsPp
Spiders - Sspp
Pastels - Ppss
Normals - ppss

If you were to then breed your bumblebee to a pastel, you have the chance of creating killer bees. Which is homo or super for pastel, in addition to also having the spider gene

Killer bee - PPSs

Robin