babies! and questions

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Something to keep in mind though, if the female that's supposed to be "assisting" the new mom with females is pregnant at that time, the babies will nurse off her as well, and ( I know in rats) the mother doesn't actually produce milk for a day when she begins to lactate.
It's chocked full of good antibodies to be given to the newborns, you would be taking that away from her own unborn pups, and she would also be nursing and pregnant at the same time. That to me is unfavorable conditions for the assisting female.
I don't know if the same thing is applicable to mice, but it's just something to keep in mind for the future.

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I am not sure I agree with your logic. Are you saying that if a seragate female nurses then any babies she is carrying won't get any antibodies? If so I would like to see proof of this. The unborn babies are tied into the mothers blood supply so they get everything she has...and once born will nurse and get more antibodies that way as well. The antibodies aren't finite in that they will run out if she nurses other babies.

I will search for where I read that...

Here we go
http://ratguide.com/breeding/postpar...n_and_milk.php

It would be under Colostrum:

I may have worded it wrong, here's the text I tried to quote:
"The initial secretion from the mammary gland is colostrum. The colostrum is lower in volume and higher in nutrients than milk and offers the newborn rat antibodies. "

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

I will search for where I read that...

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Thank you...I am not trying to challenge you...but if true that would seriously change how rats are bred as it would mean that if the original mother doesn't nurse the babies then their immune systems are not developing correctly and therefore we are raising defect rats (at least those that are allowed to grow up and would create weaker breeders)

So I am very interested in what you find.

Perhaps I should have worded it differently, but it seems to me that colostrum is important to newborn rats.

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Lord Jackel, it's cool, I usually try to cite correctly, but in this case I was rushed.

Anyways, this is about as far as I got for researching colostrum and the development of rat pups. I do intend to read further, but I never got that far. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Perhaps I should have worded it differently, but it seems to me that colostrum is important to newborn rats.

[edit]
Lord Jackel, it's cool, I usually try to cite correctly, but in this case I was rushed.

Anyways, this is about as far as I got for researching colostrum and the development of rat pups. I do intend to read further, but I never got that far. :rolleyes:

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Thanks for finding this...and it is definately something to think on and research more. It seems the exact same as human women where the colostrum is the first thing a baby gets...but since so many women are unable to breast feed (and the kids grow up fine) is makes me wonder how truly beneficial it is. Like a nice to have vs. a need to have thing. Not sure but I too will be doing some more reseach on this subject. :)

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Originally Posted by lord jackel

Thank you...I am not trying to challenge you...but if true that would seriously change how rats are bred as it would mean that if the original mother doesn't nurse the babies then their immune systems are not developing correctly and therefore we are raising defect rats (at least those that are allowed to grow up and would create weaker breeders)

So I am very interested in what you find.

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I have no idea if it makes a real difference like you said. I think that if they gave birth around the same time period, then all pups would benefit, but if she started to lactate before her own were birthed, then her own pups are missing out on the colostrum.

Like I said, I really don't know how colostrum affects there development and growth, but it does interest me. IF it does make a difference, then I personally would keep the females seperate if they havent given birth within 5 days of eachother... does that make sense to anyone?

You would think with all the research done with rats, that this info would be a little more availabel... :rolleyes:

Colostrum delivers high concentrations of proteins, carbohydrates, nutrients, and antibodies in a low-volume form to aid in the early development of the babies. The antibodies are to protect against infections for the first few days of a baby's life, and have little to no effect on long term immune system development.

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Originally Posted by CntrlF8

Colostrum delivers high concentrations of proteins, carbohydrates, nutrients, and antibodies in a low-volume form to aid in the early development of the babies. The antibodies are to protect against infections for the first few days of a baby's life, and have little to no effect on long term immune system development.

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Now where did you get that? :)

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Now where did you get that? :)

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Wikipedia.. Though the information I found is for human and bovine colostrum, it seems 99% logical that it would be pertinent to rats and mice as well...

Oh.. yea that would make sense..

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I wish they could get a little more indepth then just "early development" , but it is wikipedia..