Found at work

The little guy was really hungry. I fed him a f/t pinkie mouse this evening and he went looking for more. I allowed him to eat 3 of them, but that was the limit. I think he hadn't eaten in a really long time. He had each one swallowed within a minute and didn't waste any time grabbing them.

One thing I noticed that was really cool was that he moved his tail like a rattle snake does. It sounded really cool on the newspaper. Does that confirm that it's a fox snake?

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Originally Posted by KJE

The little guy was really hungry. I fed him a f/t pinkie mouse this evening and he went looking for more. I allowed him to eat 3 of them, but that was the limit. I think he hadn't eaten in a really long time. He had each one swallowed within a minute and didn't waste any time grabbing them.

One thing I noticed that was really cool was that he moved his tail like a rattle snake does. It sounded really cool on the newspaper. Does that confirm that it's a fox snake?

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First it is great he ate, I think with that you can be pretty sure it is ok to keep him through the winter. On your eariler question about parasites just keep him out of contact with your other animals and wash hands between handling them and you will be fine.

One the tail rattle, no, not at all in fact tail rattling is very common in all rat, bull, fox, etc snakes and many other colubrids. I have to say again I would bet 9 out of 10 on odds you have a black rat snake. I know the fox snake picture looks just like what you have but so does the black rat baby.

This weekend I just looked at a pile of black rat babies and almost bought one. Spitting image of your guy. The odds that a quite rare snake from a small area in Ohio hitched a ride to your husbands plant are quite low compared to the odds that a very common snake turned up there.

My advice, feed him, hold on to him and see what he turns into. There is no way short of finding out the subcadual scale count and taking a pic of his undertail and counting that you will know what this animal is other then letting his color come in.

If it is a Fox snake it is quite valuable and indeed I would pay shipping for the opportunity to get a hold of him and hope I could find a mate for him/her depending on sex. Yet a going rate for a black rat is about 20 bucks about double the cost of shipping.

So my advice again, keep him, watch the change, that should be fun. Then when you confirm what he is you can decide what to do with him,

It might look like a Fox Snake but it's main colors don't match one. It looks a lot like baby Rat Snake since the patterns and colors match (and jjspirko, they're not as easy to take care of as cornsnakes; Unlike CSs Black Rat Snakes have an average of 6 feet, are arboreal, and slightly more ferocious than CSs. I'm not saying that you [KJE] should release them though. It's a juvy so it can always be tamed a little bit easier). I would raise it. P.S. The only problem is if you keep it for some years it will be a bit hard to find a cage a 6-foot (and no, that's not their maximum. Their MS is 8 feet) snake.

Yes they can get large but a 8 foot Black rat is like 12 foot BCI, possible? yes, probable, no. I still consider them every bit as easy as a corn snake to care for from a feeding, temps, handling, etc. stand point. Black rats in particular tend to tame down even wild caught adults pretty quickly. Size is only an issue if you don't want a slighly larger container then for say a smaller colubrid.

I don't know why it would be "hard to find" an enclosure big enough? They require far less space then say a BCI or a Carpet Python, there are plenty of enclosures for them. They in fact will do well in the same enclosures that adult bull snakes are housed in and of course bulls are very common captives.

In any event I am about 99% on this snake being a baby black rat snake. Based on the area it was found it and the way it looks that is the most probable. The eastern fox is a pretty rare snake the odds that one hitched a ride from a very small area vs. a local animal took refuge in the ware house are pretty long.

I still say black rat, foxxies tend to be a little bit more banded while black rats are often more blotched but then again black rats vary so much by location, even in adults.

On another note, the fox snake has a back pattern that tends to be more uniform circles while young black rats have a similar patten but their back pattern seems to be more random and very few I have seen and the circle back pattern that foxies do

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Originally Posted by Pork Chops N' Corn Bread

On another note, the fox snake has a back pattern that tends to be more uniform circles while young black rats have a similar patten but their back pattern seems to be more random and very few I have seen and the circle back pattern that foxies do

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Jake,

Good point! Still it is amazing how much the various rat snakes look alike as babies isn't it. I bet if you took an anery corn baby and said you found it in a climate corns don't inhabit plenty of people would say gray rat, black rat, emory rat, etc.

Kind of sneaky but heck I might have to try that on another board just to see what people make of it,

I hate to be a wet blanket, but if there are any other reptiles in the house, the snake should not be released--given or sold to another keeper, if it's not wanted, but not released. In several States, laws have already been passed prohibiting the release of herps that have been removed from where they were found and kept captive for ANY length of time.
This is to stop the spread of diseases which exotic reptiles may be resitant to, but natives may have little immunity to.

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

I hate to be a wet blanket

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:rolleyes:

I have always wanted a Black Rat, imo they are Ohio's most beautiful snake. Below is why I have not caught one in the wild and kept it.
Per ODNR:


A reptile or amphibian that has been captively produced or is not native to Ohio may not be released into the wild. Only reptiles/amphibians that were taken from the wild may be released back into the wild and only if:

• they have not been held in captivity, in the same enclosure, with any other reptile or amphibian, except when used as a food for another captive reptile oramphibian, and

• they have not been in captivity for more than 30 days, and

• they are released near the point of capture, or, you first have written authorization from the chief of the Division of Wildlife.

WILD-CAPTURED NATIVE REPTILES AND AMPHIBIANS

Only Ohio residents may possess a total of four individuals from any of the following reptile or amphibian species or any hybrids taken from the wild:

Reptiles or amphibians taken from the wild in Ohio may NOT be bought, offered for sale, traded, bartered,or given as a gift.

WHEN DO YOU NEED A LICENSE AND WHAT CAN YOU LEGALLY DO?

A propagating license application must be requested from the Division of Wildlife within 10 days after taking possession of any native reptile, amphibian or wood turtle (Clemmys insculpta).

With a propagating license, except for state endangered species, an Ohio resident may possess:

• four total individuals of each wild-captured native reptile or amphibian from the list entitled "Wild-captured Native Reptiles and Amphibians"; and/or

• an unlimited number of animals captively produced or legally obtained from out of state, with proper documentation.

A $40 commercial propagating license is required for persons wishing to sell, offer for sale, trade, or barter native reptiles or amphibians which have been captively produced, legally obtained from out of state, or are the offspring of wild-captured animals. With this license, the license holder may possess for sale, trade or barter an unlimited number of reptiles and amphibians that are captively produced or legally obtained, with proper documentation.

A $25 noncommercial propagating license is required for persons who permanently possess native reptiles or amphibians but do not intend to sell, offer for sale, trade or barter animals. The license holder may possess an unlimited number of reptiles and/or amphibians of which only four total individuals of each reptile or amphibian have been taken from the wild.

Except for bullfrogs, green frogs, snapping or softshell turtles that can be harvested with a fishing license, a nonresident cannot take from the wild native reptiles or amphibians, live or dead.