Help! New BP Strikes Frequently

My first guy struck at me the day I picked him up...now he's the most docile ball I have.
Just give him time to get settled in and get used to your scent...I know how tempting it is to handle them, but he's scared and defensive and in all honesty, they are really pretty puny snakes...they have no venom, and their teeth are tiny...they worst they can do is make a few pinprick holes. So sometimes they put up a big bluff, and it doesn't mean they are vicious...just that they are scared. When you are a small chunky tasty snake, it's safest to assume that any big warm thing picking you up is a predator. In time, he'll learn otherwise.
Let him adjust, and in a few weeks start handling him for just a few minutes at a time...he'll get used to you, I promise.

Well, now I'm confused - much of the literature I've read indicates 75-80 is fine for the evening and 80-90 is ok for the day. In fact the book 'guide to owning a python':

"...77 deg to 88 deg during the day, reduced to 68-75 during the evening."

There is no way these heatpads could burn the BP - I have pressed my hand tightly against them for a few minutes, after they were on for the whole day (prior to getting my BP) and they feel mildly warm - that's about it.

I have 3 hides in the tank, but he seems to only use one of them - I think I may have to replace the others with smaller hides.

The hallogens provide a basking area as they only light half the tank and the red's light/heat the other half during the evening.

The heatpads are not on a thermostat and I used a probe on them and the temp of the floor only registers about 82.

Slartibartfast and Royal herp and others on the topic of handling:

THANKS - I feel much better that he'll get past this. I will take all advice on this - give some time and try again later.

Again - thanks for all the useful suggestions.

bit him back

A couple of things to consider -

Most of those books were written 10 or more years ago. The ball python "craze" has expanded dramatically in the last 10 years, and a great deal more is known about their requirements as a result.

Also, different breeders (and forums) will have slightly different views on things. On a forum such as this, consensus works a whole lot better than having one person tell you feed it when it arrives, and another telling you wait a week. BUT, shipping a snake across the country is stressful for the snake. Waiting a week to feed allows the snake to settle in and "de-stress" before putting a meal in its stomach. A stressed snake is much more likely to regurgitate its meal, and regurgitation is a very stressful event. This is why we advise waiting. A healthy ball python can go many months without food and not suffer for it. So that extra week is a precaution that has no ill effects. If Greg Grazianni told you to feed it when it arrives, I think you'll be ok.

Temps - Same thing applies to a certain degree. I've seen very prominent breeders recommend temps slightly lower than are recommended here. However, 92 hot and 82 cool will help to prevent respiratory infections, which in a ball python, can be fatal. If your snake was kept at 92/82 by Mr. Grazianni, and you keep it at lower temps, an infection is more likely. 68-75 is too cold even for cool down in breeding season, and really risks an infection.

Regarding the heat pads - you are warm blooded whereas the snake is cold blooded. It won't take nearly the high temps to cause a thermal burn on the snake that it would for you. Also, keep in mind that the snake may be lying over that pad for even as much as 24 hours at a time (maybe even more). There's an old saying that's kinda gross, but... If you put a frog in a pot of boiling water, he's gonna try to get out. But, if you put him in cool water, and then light the fire, he'll just sit there til he dies. The snake may not realize that he's getting burned until its too late.

As far as the biting, you've gotten great advice. I like what RoyalHerper said. Its very similar to my response when someone asks if they bite. My reply is "Its a snake! Of course they bite!" Biting is the ONLY means of defense that they have. He just needs to learn that you are not a threat. I would much, much rather be bitten by one of my snakes than my dog, a cat, or even the rats and mice that I feed to the snake. A mouse bite is more painful, and a rat bite is down right nasty!!! I haven't been bitten by any of my ball pythons in probably over a year. And my son and I currently have about 45 ball pythons. Can't say that I haven't been bitten in that time, because I have a little wild caught rat snake that is vicious (or at least he thinks so!)

A breeder of the magnitude that Grazianni is surely can't spend a great deal of time acclimating all his snakes for handling. So you'll just need to spend a little time with him. Pay attention to his body language when you start to get him out. If he's in a strike position, there's a couple things you can do. If you can, reach in behind him and gently stroke his back before picking him up. This will help him to realize its handling time, and reduce the chance of startling him too much. Otherwise, you can use a long object like a snake hook or feeding tongs to gently touch him on the top of his head. This will usually cause them to either ball up or hide their head. Then you can pick him up without being bitten. If you're careful to handle him from behind his head, and not move your hand in front of his face, that will reduce the chances of being bitten as well. Eventually he'll get used to you, and probably be as tame as a puppy.

Best of luck!
Steve

Hi Steve,

Thanks for all your helpful information - however, on the heat pads, again I do not believe there is any way that these pads could burn the snake.

While I disagree with it, your frog analogy is actually an example of why not - since the heat pad is always on (in your example the water is always boiling) so the snake would move (the frog would jump out). Additionally, this example defines the heat sensitivity of the animal – if the snake is capable of thermoregulation then the snake can sense hot and cold and will move away from something that may cause an over thermoregulation in either direction.

Also I measured the temp of the heat pad; it is considerably lower then the hot spot under the 50 watt halogen and lower than the pads that this site recommends in the care sheet. Excerpts follow:

“Ball pythons do very well when heated from below (UTH = under tank heat) and several methods of providing this include heat-tape (such as Flexwatt), commercially available reptile heating pads or human heat pads. Whenever utilizing UTH heat sources you should be sure there is some clearance room below the enclosure to prevent too much heat from building up – this is especially critical if you are using any sort of aquarium type solution which has a pocket of dead air underneath. Small blocks of wood, rails or rubber “feet” can be easily used for this.”

“Heating pads designed for human use have been used with great success by a large number of keepers – but it must be noted that you must obtain one which does not have the “auto-shutoff” feature or you will be unable to maintain your temperatures. These are usually available in large stores and pharmacies for appx $10 and the same caveats for UTH apply – make sure you have some clearance under your enclosure.”

As for the pads burning a snake quicker then a human merely because the snake is cold-blooded and the human is warm-blooded defies simple intuition, science and rationality. The composition of the flesh in both is incredibly similar and both will burn at basically the same temperature regardless of the type of thermoregulation each uses. If anything, the snakes’ tougher skin may likely protect him longer from burns – recall that humans have minimal protection in this area because of their thin epidermis and its inherent sensitivity.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheMadNucleus

Hi Steve,

Thanks for all your helpful information - however, on the heat pads, again I do not believe there is any way that these pads could burn the snake.

While I disagree with it, your frog analogy is actually an example of why not - since the heat pad is always on (in your example the water is always boiling) so the snake would move (the frog would jump out). Additionally, this example defines the heat sensitivity of the animal – if the snake is capable of thermoregulation then the snake can sense hot and cold and will move away from something that may cause an over thermoregulation in either direction.

Also I measured the temp of the heat pad; it is considerably lower then the hot spot under the 50 watt halogen and lower than the pads that this site recommends in the care sheet. Excerpts follow:

“Ball pythons do very well when heated from below (UTH = under tank heat) and several methods of providing this include heat-tape (such as Flexwatt), commercially available reptile heating pads or human heat pads. Whenever utilizing UTH heat sources you should be sure there is some clearance room below the enclosure to prevent too much heat from building up – this is especially critical if you are using any sort of aquarium type solution which has a pocket of dead air underneath. Small blocks of wood, rails or rubber “feet” can be easily used for this.”

“Heating pads designed for human use have been used with great success by a large number of keepers – but it must be noted that you must obtain one which does not have the “auto-shutoff” feature or you will be unable to maintain your temperatures. These are usually available in large stores and pharmacies for appx $10 and the same caveats for UTH apply – make sure you have some clearance under your enclosure.”

As for the pads burning a snake quicker then a human merely because the snake is cold-blooded and the human is warm-blooded defies simple intuition, science and rationality. The composition of the flesh in both is incredibly similar and both will burn at basically the same temperature regardless of the type of thermoregulation each uses. If anything, the snakes’ tougher skin may likely protect him longer from burns – recall that humans have minimal protection in this area because of their thin epidermis and its inherent sensitivity.

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We can never convince everyone. All we can do is try. Those of us that have been around here very long have seen multiple threads about snakes that have been burned. Again, while every situation is different, and there may be something about your heat pads that keep them from getting too warm, here at bp.net, we try to provide a "best practices" type of advice. If you're convinced, you're convinced. And all I can say is do what you think is best. If your snake gets burned, come back here. We can help you with that too. By the way, in my opinion, about the only thing worse than an unregulated human heat pad for heating your snake's enclosure would be a heat rock.

Again, best of luck!
Steve

Hi,


Forgive me if this seems a little blunt but people keep telling us this (in threads like this one) yet we still keep seeing snakes with badly burnt bellies.

Sadly the pictures have expired on most of these threads but they should at least give you something to consider.

Thread 1.

Thread 2.

Thread 3.

Thread 4.

I think I'd rather be cautious all in all.:(

Oh and flexwatt will happily reach 110-115f with no trouble at all if it is unregulated - and this is in my livingroom which is far from warm most of the time.


dr del

110 degrees does not feel very warm to us when we touch them, our body temps are 98.6 - but it can and WILL burn your snake. I have used human heat pads temporarily until I could get in proper heating devices with a quality thermostat, and even on the lowest setting, when measured with a digital thermometer was very warm. When I have to use one, I lay down at LEAST 10 layers of newspaper over it to keep from having so much heat come through.


If you really want to read the most current in ball python care, please pick up one or both of these books, both written by two leading breeders in the industry and published within the last 3 years. The book that you have has advise from years ago, and the husbandry requirements have changed dramatically since then.

The Complete Ball Python by Kevin McCurley of NERD

Pythons of the World, Vol II: Ball Pythons by Barker and Barker of VPI

Pythons of the World Vol II: Ball Pythons by Barker & Barker, pp. 25-26:

As long as it is possible for the snake to move to a cooler area, we have never observed a ball python to allow itself to be burned on its dorsal surface from a radiant heat source that is too hot; however, over the years we have seen a number of ball pythons with severly burned ventral surfaces, caused by the snakes' voluntarily sitting too long on electrically warmed surfaces such as substrate heaters, under-cage-heating pads, or heated fake rocks. From this we deduce that ball pythons have less ability to detect and determine critical temperatures on their undersides than on their upper sides.