Pics of Nyoka.

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Originally Posted by sirgrim

Shh, just don't tell anyone I'm a live feeder. Keep 'em on the guages ;D

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Shhhh, don't tell anyone that most of the members here are live feeders too, including me! :rolleyes:

Do what you do, if analog makes you happy, more power to you!

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Originally Posted by sirgrim

I doubt they would sell or make them at all if they didn't actually work. Do you know the engineering principles behind an analog thermometer? They're not very complex. Sure they go bad, being off a couple degrees or what not. Just like the broken one stuck in the freezer. Probably corrupted by the heat and humidity and broke eventually.

I know people who have digital ones warp and stop working too. Does that mean they all don't work too?

That said, I have an infared no-contact thermometer I use for work. It works great for quickly comparing temperatures. I also keep the analogs in the dry corner to further their life.

I think my choice in monitoring equipment isn't very big. I will always give my animals the best care I can.

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Look no need to get so defensive here, this is not about you, it's about what's the best thing for the snake. As far as them (i.e. the pet store) not selling something because it doesn't work, please go look at most chain pet stores. They sell heat rocks, years after it's been proven over and over that they simply are not safe for any creature let alone a snake. Your average pet store is not and should not be the standard by which anyone sets their husbandry.

No one is saying you aren't keeping your animal well, again this is about a few suggestions for a tweak here or there. Isn't that the reason most people join forums....to learn? Monitoring your snake's enclosure is a "very big" deal. Some snakes do very well under varying heat conditions, ball pythons are not one of those species.

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Originally Posted by sirgrim

People calling my choice of equipment cheap is one thing. Saying it doesn't work right is assumptious at best, ignorant at least.

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Not when it's based on, in many cases, years of experience keeping the equipment in the conditions these animals require. Regardless of whether you live in the desert, or on a polar ice cap, the conditions inside the enclosure should be the same temperature and humidity, and these devices are notorious for being inaccurate and prone to failure in regular use scenerios.

There is a reason they're tossing out the recommendation, and hint: it's for the good of the animal, not just trying to beat you up for cheaping out on items that are necessary for the health and well-being of your new acquisition.

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Originally Posted by sirgrim

Yes, I am a little defensive that some pictures get nit-picked over guages by people that know nothing more about my setup or location than four pictures.

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Well, a picture says a thousand words no? Would you expect not to get nit-picked by professional breeders if you only posted four pictures of you storing your animals in cardboard tubes?

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Originally Posted by sirgrim

This might be my first ball python, but it's far from my first reptile or exotic pet.

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So, as long as the rest of your "exotic pets" haven't died from lack of proper care, you should be well aware that each type of animal has very specific needs, in many cases requiring specific equipment and care techniques.

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Originally Posted by sirgrim

Heck, I'm tempted to not upgrade to digital now just to show everyone it can be done.

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Good idea, engaging in animal husbandry with inadequate equipment will sure show all those high-and-mighty snake keepers, many with dozens and/or hundreds of animals, who think they know more about BPs than you.

I live in a desert too. It's about 15 % humidity today, last week was 115 degrees. Today high 90's so maybe it's you making the assumptions. No one is attacking you dude, chill out. I started with one BP too and now have almost 40 and breeding many more. Just trying to give some friendly advice. Thats what we do here. Don't worry I won't offer you any more advice because obviously you take it very personally. And yes all my snakes eat live too.

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Originally Posted by ctrlfreq

Not when it's based on, in many cases, years of experience keeping the equipment in the conditions these animals require. Regardless of whether you live in the desert, or on a polar ice cap, the conditions inside the enclosure should be the same temperature and humidity, and these devices are notorious for being inaccurate and prone to failure in regular use scenerios.

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So you're saying your enclosure is 100% sealed, and operating on a bio-dome type setup generating it's own oxygen with plants and releases from your snake? There's NO outside input in your tank? Right. Any device can fail. An analog thermometer is built by coiling a piece of material that changes with temperatures. If this is coiled improperly or built improperly. Yes, they can fail. If the digital ones are constructed faulty, they can be inaccurate and prone to failure too. Even from the outside influences that aren't in your cage.

The air alone here has less salt than my examples. Salt is DEADLY to any equipment, and builds up easier than your sealed tank might expect.

If constructed properly there is no reason an analog setup is going to be more reliable than a digital, or vice versa.

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Originally Posted by ctrlfreq

There is a reason they're tossing out the recommendation, and hint: it's for the good of the animal, not just trying to beat you up for cheaping out on items that are necessary for the health and well-being of your new acquisition.

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I've had the snake for a while. I'm sharing pictures of it in the picture section. If I wanted to know how useless my analog devices are I would have asked about them in husbandry. But alas, I know they work.

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Originally Posted by ctrlfreq

Well, a picture says a thousand words no? Would you expect not to get nit-picked by professional breeders if you only posted four pictures of you storing your animals in cardboard tubes?

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No, a picture shows how something was at any given moment in time. Anyone can put two animals together and get them to breed. Want to impress me put them together and get them to not breed, without being stressed.

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Originally Posted by ctrlfreq

So, as long as the rest of your "exotic pets" haven't died from lack of proper care, you should be well aware that each type of animal has very specific needs, in many cases requiring specific equipment and care techniques.

Good idea, engaging in animal husbandry with inadequate equipment will sure show all those high-and-mighty snake keepers, many with dozens and/or hundreds of animals, who think they know more about BPs than you.

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Assume they have all died based on my use of an analog thermometer for all I care. Assume my equipment is inadequite when I actually know how and why it works. I can easily demonstrate it's accurate enough.

The fancy digitals, whose uses makes you a reptile expert, are prone to failure rate of +/- 2o. Do you know which way the one in YOUR tank is faulty? Is it entirely accurate? Have you even tested it, or does it just have to work, because it's digital?

If you're using anything without verifying it's accuracy then you have no room to comment. Keep assuming. Obviously you enjoy it.

Have fun.

I feed live too....

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Originally Posted by sirgrim

So you're saying your enclosure is 100% sealed, and operating on a bio-dome type setup generating it's own oxygen with plants and releases from your snake?

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Of course not, the statement was about the el-cheapo thermometers failing in normal enclosure conditions, which, regardless of external environments, should be the same (temp & humidity). Are you trying to say that the inside of the enclosure, where these devices reside, should be different based on the external environs?

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Originally Posted by sirgrim

If constructed properly there is no reason an analog setup is going to be more reliable than a digital, or vice versa.

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Bingo, which is the entire point. The cheap analog devices are not constructed properly, and are thus extremely prone to inaccuracy and failure, in the very conditions they are made to operate in. Seriously, how much, if any, quality control do you really think your $1 thermometer got?

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Originally Posted by sirgrim

No, a picture shows how something was at any given moment in time.

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And when someone addressed an issue in your picture at "that moment in time", you threw a tantrum about how you would 'show them'. Either way, are you claiming that your setup is different now than before, and if not, then why the "given moment" smoke-screen?

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Originally Posted by sirgrim

The fancy digitals, whose uses makes you a reptile expert, are prone to failure rate of +/- 2o.

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Failure rates look like 1 in 100 or 50 in 100, and are based on a given amount of time (not a variance of +/- a number of degrees).

That said, I would be very interested in the source of your information, as well as the information you decided not to refer to, the failure rate of the cheap analogs.

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Originally Posted by sirgrim

Do you know which way the one in YOUR tank is faulty? Is it entirely accurate? Have you even tested it, or does it just have to work, because it's digital?

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First, I don't, and wouldn't, use tanks since I know that glass enclosures, being made of glass and all, are themselves an obsticle for trying to maintain the proper conditions these animals require. Sure, you can do it, but that doesn't mean you should.

Second, our racks tend to have these "fancy digitials" in at least 50% of the populated tubs. This means that, along with the thermostat regulating the power level to the heating elements, I may have as many as 6-8 thermometers per rack. Given the number, and the fact that these are cleaned, batteries replaced, and move around regularly (often two or more in the same tub to verify accuracy), we can very easily pick out those that are broken or inaccurate. So far, we've had one fail, which was due to an animal deciding it looked better in the water bowl.

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Originally Posted by sirgrim

If you're using anything without verifying it's accuracy then you have no room to comment.

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Well, since we've now established that I do, in fact, verify the accuracy of the devices I use to take care of my animals, I guess I can comment all I want, eh? Can questions like "How many of these cheap thermometers do you have in the enclosure?", "How do you test and verify their accuracy?", or "Do you still have any of the previous 'exotics' you mentioned, and if not, what happened to them?" qualify as comments?

BURN!!! :teevee:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Do what you do, if analog makes you happy, more power to you!

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I agree, if it works, it works, as long as you have a backup so you know if one breaks. I myself use the acurites that everyone talks about and I used only one with my rack which was a bad idea. It said 91 but my hand said ouch. Luckily none of my animals were hurt and now I use two acurites with my rack so i know if one goes bad. Analogs have been used forever and they arn't as acurite as electronics but they still work. As long as you have a backup its fine.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Shhhh, don't tell anyone that most of the members here are live feeders too, including me! :rolleyes:

Do what you do, if analog makes you happy, more power to you!

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I eat live mice too, a little too fuzzy at times but warm and tasty. :D