Breeding Question... Rats not snakes

All of my older balls (yr+) feed on F/T with no problem and I can even switch it up go live one week F/T the next with no problems... I have one female pastel 06 who I got from a breeder and she is a punk when it comes to eating... I fed her live the first couple times to get her to eat and into the routine... I then got her to eat F/T like 2 weeks in a row and then she refused F/T 2 weeks in a row so I've been making the special trip for her on feeding day. I dont mind doing the whole F/T thing and im gonna try GA's tip with thawing them at room temp and warming em up with a hair dryer this week... I think I might take Kagez tip on holding off on getting 8 breeder females right now and just get a couple to test the waters with the whole breeding feeders. In the long run I want to depend solely on raising my own feeders bc its cheaper that way... Last time I ordered F/T rats I paid 85$ for 75 weanlings shipped from rodent pro which is a pretty decent deal for now since I only have 5 snakes feeding on weanlings... I got 2 soon to be 3 07' babies who in the long run will be eating larger prey which will cost me a little more money but for now theyre on rat pups which are only a couple bucks... I'm gonna stop in a couple local pet shops this weekend and see what they have for rats and then Ill decide where to go from here... Thanks everyone for your help... Im sure Ill be back for some more :) I also gotta get some new pics up of my clan as I havent even gotten to show off my new additions (lesser female, male pinstripe, and soon to be female Mojo)

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Originally Posted by Kagez28

i would talk to Sean (lord jackel) he is a pro at breeding rats. he will help you out with the # of rats you need, and the time frame.

personally i think would be too much to breed for only 8 snakes. but thats just my thought. i have 10 snakes and i am breeding 1.3 rats along with f/t and it's working out pretty good.

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Thanks for the compliment :sunny:

It is my belief and with lots of experimenting....that sets of 12 are the ideal number. What a lot of feeder breeders forget is that rats need a break after you wean a litter. They need time to regain weight, bone mass and minerals.

Ideally you would want 12 females and 1 male. Here is something I wrote in another thread about an ideal breeding timeline.

"You rotate the male ever week in with a different female. After about 4 weeks the females will start giving birth. It takes about 8 weeks to get this process started but once running you should never run out of the correct number of feeders.

Here is how it works assuming wk 1 the first female gives birth (to about 10 on avg.)

Wk1-4 the first female is with the male then the 2nd, then the 3rd finally the 4th
wk5 - female 1 delivers - male is with female 5 and moves ever week
wk6 - female 2 delivers
wk7 - female 3 delivers
wk8 - female 4 delivers - you feed off week 1's babies (they are 4 weeks old and pup size)
wk9 - female 5 delivers, feed of female 2's babies, female 1 is resting
wk 10 - female 6 delivers, feed of female 3's babies, female 1,2 are resting
wk11 - female 7 delivers, feed of female 4's babies, female 1, 2,3 are resting
wk 12 - female 8 delivers, feed of female 5's babies, male is now going back in with female 1, females 2,3,4 are resting.

See the pattern? Each female = 1 week with male, 4 weeks to give birth, 4 weeks to ween and 4 weeks to rest. (approx weeks as they are this exact)

I have this same setup but using 5 females for each week (60 females total) and for the past 3 years and have always had the correct number of feeders needed (any excess are sold off to a local pet store or friends)

You can work with less females but you will stress their bodies by over breeding them without the necessary rest period so they will die quicker and produce less. "

Now...this is setup up so you never are without feeders...you can have less breeders if you want but the risk is the need to occassionally buy extra feeders (bad week, sick breeder, etc.) or to feed F/T on occassion.

Let me know if you have any questions.

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

All of my older balls (yr+) feed on F/T with no problem and I can even switch it up go live one week F/T the next with no problems... I have one female pastel 06 who I got from a breeder and she is a punk when it comes to eating... I fed her live the first couple times to get her to eat and into the routine... I then got her to eat F/T like 2 weeks in a row and then she refused F/T 2 weeks in a row so I've been making the special trip for her on feeding day. I dont mind doing the whole F/T thing and im gonna try GA's tip with thawing them at room temp and warming em up with a hair dryer this week... I think I might take Kagez tip on holding off on getting 8 breeder females right now and just get a couple to test the waters with the whole breeding feeders. In the long run I want to depend solely on raising my own feeders bc its cheaper that way... Last time I ordered F/T rats I paid 85$ for 75 weanlings shipped from rodent pro which is a pretty decent deal for now since I only have 5 snakes feeding on weanlings... I got 2 soon to be 3 07' babies who in the long run will be eating larger prey which will cost me a little more money but for now theyre on rat pups which are only a couple bucks... I'm gonna stop in a couple local pet shops this weekend and see what they have for rats and then Ill decide where to go from here... Thanks everyone for your help... Im sure Ill be back for some more :) I also gotta get some new pics up of my clan as I havent even gotten to show off my new additions (lesser female, male pinstripe, and soon to be female Mojo)

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This really is the ideal way...feed F/T when you can (the math does work out in your favor over the long haul) then "play" at breeding. This way you can work up to breeding over time without the live/die if you don't have enough. With 30+ snakes to feed F/T just takes too much time for me so live it is and lots of them :D

LordJackel:
With your 12 female plan, how many rat pups are available per week? It sounds like it makes tons of rats. But if you feed one rat's litter each week then it's 6-12 per week correct?
Thanks for laying it all out so simply. I can't ever do that.

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Originally Posted by lord jackel

Thanks for the compliment :sunny:

It is my belief and with lots of experimenting....that sets of 12 are the ideal number. What a lot of feeder breeders forget is that rats need a break after you wean a litter. They need time to regain weight, bone mass and minerals.

Ideally you would want 12 females and 1 male. Here is something I wrote in another thread about an ideal breeding timeline.

"You rotate the male ever week in with a different female. After about 4 weeks the females will start giving birth. It takes about 8 weeks to get this process started but once running you should never run out of the correct number of feeders.

Here is how it works assuming wk 1 the first female gives birth (to about 10 on avg.)

Wk1-4 the first female is with the male then the 2nd, then the 3rd finally the 4th
wk5 - female 1 delivers - male is with female 5 and moves ever week
wk6 - female 2 delivers
wk7 - female 3 delivers
wk8 - female 4 delivers - you feed off week 1's babies (they are 4 weeks old and pup size)
wk9 - female 5 delivers, feed of female 2's babies, female 1 is resting
wk 10 - female 6 delivers, feed of female 3's babies, female 1,2 are resting
wk11 - female 7 delivers, feed of female 4's babies, female 1, 2,3 are resting
wk 12 - female 8 delivers, feed of female 5's babies, male is now going back in with female 1, females 2,3,4 are resting.

See the pattern? Each female = 1 week with male, 4 weeks to give birth, 4 weeks to ween and 4 weeks to rest. (approx weeks as they are this exact)

I have this same setup but using 5 females for each week (60 females total) and for the past 3 years and have always had the correct number of feeders needed (any excess are sold off to a local pet store or friends)

You can work with less females but you will stress their bodies by over breeding them without the necessary rest period so they will die quicker and produce less. "

Now...this is setup up so you never are without feeders...you can have less breeders if you want but the risk is the need to occassionally buy extra feeders (bad week, sick breeder, etc.) or to feed F/T on occassion.

Let me know if you have any questions.

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Have you actually kept track of the expenses for food, bedding, etc.. to give at least a close approximation of your cost/feeder? I'm currently "playing" with breeding mice, since it's pretty much impossible to have a mouse that's too big for a BP.. I've only got 1.2 at the moment, but if they breed successfully I will be moving up from there. They're also (relatively) cute, and keep my cats entertained for hours at a time...

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

LordJackel:
With your 12 female plan, how many rat pups are available per week? It sounds like it makes tons of rats. But if you feed one rat's litter each week then it's 6-12 per week correct?
Thanks for laying it all out so simply. I can't ever do that.

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For tracking and feeding math I use 10 as the avg. litter size. So yes you would produce 10 weaned rats (or whatever size you feed at) every week.

Since you simply multiply this system you can get to the number you need.

ie. say 2 rats per tub (24 rats) would produce 20 weaned rats per week....3 per tub would produce 30...etc.

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Originally Posted by CntrlF8

Have you actually kept track of the expenses for food, bedding, etc.. to give at least a close approximation of your cost/feeder? I'm currently "playing" with breeding mice, since it's pretty much impossible to have a mouse that's too big for a BP.. I've only got 1.2 at the moment, but if they breed successfully I will be moving up from there. They're also (relatively) cute, and keep my cats entertained for hours at a time...

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Actually I do...I produce 240-300 weaned rats per month with an avg. cost of $0.46 each. This accounts for the cost of food, bedding and initial costs of the breeders and rack. (I am sure I have amoritized the rack and breeder cost by now but I haven't bothered to redo the math). This "cost" also doesn't include the profit I make by selling my excess rats (at $1.50 each) to the local pet store or local people that need them too. If I was to really track it I pry break even every month.

EDIT: OK I just did the math and if I take out the rack costs and initial breeder costs it means that each weaned rat costs me $0.21 . Using this number I make money each month breeding rats. :D

it must be nice getting a little something back for doing something you enjoy...

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Originally Posted by Kagez28

it must be nice getting a little something back for doing something you enjoy...

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It is very little...LOL

I enjoy playing with the rats just as much as I do the snakes. It also allows me time to breed for colors, patterns and such for pets along with the feeders. :)

You really need to enjoy the rats (or mice) if you are going to breed them...you will spend more time dealing with them then with your snakes - by 10 fold

Wow... That pretty much sums everything up ... sounds like you were the man to get ahold of for this topic!! Your system makes complete sense and I definitely just printed that out... I feel like I should atleast toss you a couple bucks for putting that post up. Not too sure when Ill start breeding the rats but I'tll be a good combo with GA's rat rack and your breeding tips...Thank You both!!!