Burn point...

Just a quick note... 105 can be fatal for humans too (core temp) but at 110 degrees (not much difference) fatality would occur within minutes.

I was only using humans as an example of the ability of flesh to withstand a fairly modest *contact* temperature of 105. Body temps of 105 are another thing entirely. Despite the large differences between snakes and humans they are both not going to live at a body temp of 105 - a similarity.

So, my impression is that snakes can't feel if a particular contact point is too hot and so are easily burned when coming in contact with heat sources. However, they are capable of sensing overall body temperature which is why they "thermoregulate". If they couldn't do that then the whole idea of giving the snake a temperate gradient would make no sense, right? I can clearly see my snake go back and forth between the warm and cool hides at fairly regular intervals. Read a bit on maternal incubation and you'll see that they have a very good idea of the overall temperature.

But, I do agree that 105 is too high and am working on the temps right now. I don't want anybody to think I'm trying to argue that he should be roasting or anything. Eventually I'll get a t-stat but for now I'm thickening up the substrate on the warm side. He's been doing well in this setup for 5 or 6 months now so he can't be that bad off.

To make a long sad story short. A vet that claimed she was a exotics expert misdiagnosed it as a sistemic infection. She is still the only vet in town that does reptiles. Anyway she put him on 2 different antibiotics for a total of 9 weeks, and told me to max his temps. 105 was the hot spot. When it wasnt getting any better after more than two months I took him to a specialist in Las Vegas. The moment I took him out of the bag the Dr recognised it as a burn and admited him right away. After a week in the hospital it was just too much for the little guy and he died on feb 27 07. He was a special snake, he would snuggle like a cat, and like to be held. I miss him more than anything. It still kills me to think about how he suffered for so long because of bad vet treatment. All said and done I spent over 600 bucks on full treatment. A repti-temp 500R thermostat and a digital thermometer with a probe will cost you about 27 dollars total at reptile supply.com and your snake will safe and comfortable, well worth the price. :rockon:

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Originally Posted by bearhart

I was only using humans as an example of the ability of flesh to withstand a fairly modest *contact* temperature of 105. Body temps of 105 are another thing entirely. Despite the large differences between snakes and humans they are both not going to live at a body temp of 105 - a similarity.

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Yes, a similarity. However, the point I was making was that what is dissimilar is that snakes have no way of internally regulating external temperatures.

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So, my impression is that snakes can't feel if a particular contact point is too hot and so are easily burned when coming in contact with heat sources. However, they are capable of sensing overall body temperature which is why they "thermoregulate". If they couldn't do that then the whole idea of giving the snake a temperate gradient would make no sense, right? I can clearly see my snake go back and forth between the warm and cool hides at fairly regular intervals. Read a bit on maternal incubation and you'll see that they have a very good idea of the overall temperature.

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Once again, you are incorrect. Humans thermoregulate, snakes do not. Thermoregulation is the ability to keep the bodies temperature within certain boundaries, regardless of external heat. Humans do this through water... we release water through sweat glands, which in turns regulate internal core temperatures.

Snakes have nothing like this. While they can sense temperature gradients, they do not have the higher brain function to recognize "I'm going to get burned by laying here." That's why heat rocks are completely incompatible with snakes.

And clearly, you need to do some reading on maternal incubation. Balls and Carpets aren't capable of producing heat for egg incubation. You may be thinking of some breeds of pythons (like Burms) that are capable of increasing the heat of eggs by releasing (or conserving) moisture built by incubation. Balls don't do that.

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But, I do agree that 105 is too high and am working on the temps right now. I don't want anybody to think I'm trying to argue that he should be roasting or anything. Eventually I'll get a t-stat but for now I'm thickening up the substrate on the warm side. He's been doing well in this setup for 5 or 6 months now so he can't be that bad off.

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And that's poor husbandry. Simply because something has worked for a few months doesn't mean you should continue doing it. Your enviornment i suncontrolled... increasing or decreasing substrate is NOT a replacement (for any length of time) to regulate temperatures. Spend $10 and at LEAST get a rheostat.

piling up the substrate is not a good option. first off snakes are pretty good burrowers, so just because you have 5 inches of aspen or whatever doesn't guarantee the snake is not going to get burned. the least you can do is get a lamp dimmer at lowes for $10.

check the classified adds in this forum and see if anyone has a used thermostat for sale cheap that you can use till you pick up a helix or a ranco.

I tried making the substrate thicker too, didnt work. These guys temps must be regulated in some way. Reostat or thermostat, its a must.

Please get a thermostat, or at least a rheostat. Keeping free access to 105 degree temps in your tank, is, (if you prefer human-to-snake comparisons) like providing free access to a loaded pistol in a toddler's bedroom.

Ok, well I've got the substrate piled up and the temps are down to mid 90's. (yea, i've read the stuff about why this isn't the best way but its a start...).

I work right by a Lowe's so I'll see if I can pick up a rheostat today.

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Originally Posted by harfieldthethirsty

To make a long sad story short. A vet that claimed she was a exotics expert misdiagnosed it as a sistemic infection. She is still the only vet in town that does reptiles. Anyway she put him on 2 different antibiotics for a total of 9 weeks, and told me to max his temps. 105 was the hot spot. When it wasnt getting any better after more than two months I took him to a specialist in Las Vegas. The moment I took him out of the bag the Dr recognised it as a burn and admited him right away. After a week in the hospital it was just too much for the little guy and he died on feb 27 07. He was a special snake, he would snuggle like a cat, and like to be held. I miss him more than anything. It still kills me to think about how he suffered for so long because of bad vet treatment. All said and done I spent over 600 bucks on full treatment. A repti-temp 500R thermostat and a digital thermometer with a probe will cost you about 27 dollars total at reptile supply.com and your snake will safe and comfortable, well worth the price. :rockon:

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My condolances. He sounds like an awesome snake. My little guy is pretty special himself so I'm going to make sure he stays around.

Dude, don't argue, just buy a rheostat! :D Thicker substrate may sound like a good idea, but if Mr. BP decides to go for a little dig..... :(