a little help please

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Originally Posted by jeffjr464

ok if you don't like the bag method how bout a mousetrap? lol what's the difference if you kill a mouse in your house with a trap or give it one quick painless whack, if i was a mouse id rather be killed instantly than having my air supply cutoff and suffocating to death

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Eeekkk... I couldn't do either of those things. I'd feel MUCH more guilty smacking a mouse than dropping it in with my snake. At least a snake eating its prey occurs in nature. I'm pretty sure getting thrown into a door frame isn't one of the most common causes of death for a mouse.

i had mice in my house that i had to trap after they raided my cuboards so maybe im a little blind to mouse ethics

Being a new BP owner, I'm in 'humaneness' conflict myself ... from reading/hearing the two-sided debate on whether or not to feed a live mouse vs. a pre killed mouse, I've heard more that pre-killed is better, due to the fact that the live mouse could injure your snake (or have a tendency to make the snake more aggressive in nature) - well I definitely don't want that, so I accepted that pre killed was going to have to be the process (that's what they were fed in the pet store, and I know that BP's are finicky eaters, so I don't want to jeopardize her not eating due to 'change.' - and she's eaten every Friday on schedule no problems.) But I really don't like 'whacking' the mouse on the counter to kill/knock it out for the snake ... I feel so bad having to kill it myself.

I'm lucky that my ball is a voracious eater... For the most part I don't worry about him getting bitten (I however always supervise).

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Being a new BP owner, I'm in 'humaneness' conflict myself ... from reading/hearing the two-sided debate on whether or not to feed a live mouse vs. a pre killed mouse, I've heard more that pre-killed is better, due to the fact that the live mouse could injure your snake (or have a tendency to make the snake more aggressive in nature)

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Which ever you chose just know that live if done responsibility is perfectly fine.

Bottom line when it comes to feeding, you should feed what work for your BP and what is convenient for you.

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I really don't like 'whacking' the mouse on the counter to kill/knock it out for the snake ... I feel so bad having to kill it myself.

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Know that there are more human ways to kill a rodent if you wish to feed P/K

http://www.thereddragonsden.com/co2.htm (cost around 50$ to make)

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=33850

I would agree that 2 or 3 more weekly feedings of it's preferred live prey are best then you could try f/t. Make sure the f/t mouse is warmed appropriately, often giving it a quick blast with a hair dryer on hot just seconds before it enters the snake's tank will also bump up it's temp a bit, use tongs or hemostats to grasp it by the loose skin between it's shoulder blades and "dance" it in a lifelike mannner. Don't shove it in the snake's face, just "walk" it by much like a live mouse would do.

As to the live issue. First remember that snakes do not suffocate their prey. Suffocation is a slow manner of death which would not be in the snake's best interest when dealing with live prey with teeth. Nature designed them to constrict with enough pressure to almost immediately stop cardiac function which leads to a very quick death. Our human emotion of empathy for the prey while understandable really has no place in this well designed predator/prey dynamic. As I see it, my role is to both provide well for the live prey I offer, treating them in a humane and educated manner while they exist in my colony as well as setting up a live feeding experience that is safe and appropriate for our snakes.

Whether you feed live, pre-killed or frozen/thawed you owe the prey animal and the snake that exists solely off it, to educate yourself. Things like learning proper care of living prey, proper thawing methods, humane euthanizing, methods of offering prey and what an appropriate prey size and feeding schedule is. Do that and you, your snake and it's prey will all do fine. :)

i meant suffocate by using a co2 chamber, that seems the worst of all to me

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Originally Posted by jeffjr464

ok if you don't like the bag method how bout a mousetrap? lol what's the difference if you kill a mouse in your house with a trap or give it one quick painless whack, if i was a mouse id rather be killed instantly than having my air supply cutoff and suffocating to death

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Hi,:)

To the mouse? Probably not a lot - though the co2 chamber is still regarded as more humane.

To me? Also not a lot - I wasn't expressing a personal preference.:)

To a lawyer? There's a world of difference - one of those mice is classified as vermin and you are legally entitled to kill it using approved methods and the other is a pet you are legally obliged to care for in very specific ways that also include how its life can be terminated.

While most of the animal control personnel here would be hard pushed to identify a reptile if you tickled them with it much less recognise if it was being cared for correctly they are pretty good at identifying questionable husbandry practices with pretty much any type of mammal.:(

I wasn't trying to tell you not to kill mice or call you cruel for feeding your snake - I was merely trying to point out that if anyone tells an animal control person you slammed a mouse off a doorframe in a bag they are likely to get quite het up about it and if they successfully convince a judge that it is cruel then you can be banned from keeping any animals for a period of years.

Given the extremity of the consequencies I prefer to recomend people use euthanasia methods regarded as humane and thus legally problem free whenever it comes up.

Hope this clarifies my previous posts a little.


dr del

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Originally Posted by jeffjr464

i meant suffocate by using a co2 chamber, that seems the worst of all to me

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Lots of threads in the FEEDERS forum about it, but if done correctly, they actually go to sleep first, then die, so if it's the right mix and slow enough, they don't actually suffocate.

it's all a mute point to me now, mines eating live mice :) he gulped one down today in 2 minutes flat,had a drink and went to bed :)