First 2007 CH shipment a few fancies....More "Lottery" debate split

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

So on one hand you say you write the hunter's guide, but on the other hand:



So you know what to look for and then again you pick stuff out that doesn't turn out to be anything but completely normal?

You might want to clarify here...Anyone else confused? :rolleye2:

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That's the point... even to me after a few hours they all start to look the same and I know what im doing. Its actually a joke down here, ill be at bens place and after a few hundred balls we start going "hey I found another yellow belly or check out this cinnamon" when we know full well they are normals. The reality is after 2-3 hours and only halfway through the babies you start seeing "what you want to see" (basically every snake looks like a calico :) ) or start slacking and get lazy and stop checking bellies , chins, sides etc just to get done...

It does amaze me though that someone who has never gone through 1000 balls will comment this strongly on it. I got a deal for you, if you ever get down here during baby season and i can get one of my friends to let you come, you can go through a 1000+ balls with me and experience it for yourself... There's a big difference between intellectual knowledge and experiencial knowledge :D (Simplified version :) - think you know and knowing )

Neil, Mike, Ben , Myself can all tell you... we miss stuff and the people in africa miss stuff. If may not be that often, but it does happen. I know for a fact (becuase i saw it ) that the guys in africa missed an amazing Shatter Pattern last year. The best part is that Ben missed it too. I was at his shop and this kid comes in with a ball, right away i notice that its a shatter, i about freak out. Well i offer this kid and his dad $500 for it, they turn me down (kid was attached and good for him!) i find out it was in his Ball tank in the front of his shop, that would mean i missed it too :( ... Stuff gets missed its the way it goes...

there is a big difference in going through 1000+ in a shipment. and getting a 10 lot of mixed ch normals. yes mistakes happen, the question is how many mistakes?? how many mistakes will happen when they were ordered as 10 lot of mixed ch???


you don't have to go to FL, to go through 1000 ch normals!:rockon:

for me the proof is in the pudding:D

someone keep track of the male/female ratio:cool:



vaughn

How often are mistaken made, I've got 5400 to go threw Today and Tomorrow, I'll again let you know what I find and post pictures. I'm hoping to catch half of what the africans miss and eventually catch the other half as I'm packing up orders over the next few months......

Anyone wanting to help we will be at Mikes place (Haines City Fl) Thursday and My place (Lithia Florida, 15 minutes outside Tampa) Friday, pm me and we will see if we can make something happen.

again, you going through 5400 and someone ordering a 10 lot is a big difference!!!


someone good with statistics work this out, if you find 10 morphs in 5000, what are your chances when only buying a 10 lot? just curious!:)

also, if the ratio is 60-70% males. what are the odds of that being random? i'm just curious...


vaughn

The percentage odds stay the same. Your example of 10 out of 5000 means that there would 1 in every 50 bags (1 in every 500 snakes). My chances only increase over say yours as I've got so many more bags to open. Our overall chances of getting something out of any one bag are the same.

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Originally Posted by kavmon

again, you going through 5400 and someone ordering a 10 lot is a big difference!!!


someone good with statistics work this out, if you find 10 morphs in 5000, what are your chances when only buying a 10 lot? just curious!:)

also, if the ratio is 60-70% males. what are the odds of that being random? i'm just curious...


vaughn

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Where are you getting this 60%-70% males number???? Overall you will get about 50/50. The exporters do not care the sex of these snakes. Even the big importers can't request to get only females so why would the bags not be on average 50/50? How many bags of ch snakes have you ever opened and sexed? You seem pretty sure of yourself.

Why are you so against the unopened bag thing? No one said their is a great shot at finding something special. People are getting nice healthy animals for $15 each. What's the problem?

Bottom line if I want a hypo or a calico or a granite, I'm not going to pick up 50 bags and hope for the best. I'm going to pick up the phone and call a breeder. If I was looking to pick up cheap poss breeder females or cool dinkers then yea I might get a bag or two. People shouldn't feel cheated if they don't get a crappy calico or bad pastel. The odds are against you from the start. Now if I was a pet store owner and wanted some cheap babys for pets then yea I hit it up..

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Originally Posted by pfan151

Where are you getting this 60%-70% males number???? Overall you will get about 50/50. The exporters do not care the sex of these snakes. Even the big importers can't request to get only females so why would the bags not be on average 50/50? How many bags of ch snakes have you ever opened and sexed? You seem pretty sure of yourself.

Why are you so against the unopened bag thing? No one said their is a great shot at finding something special. People are getting nice healthy animals for $15 each. What's the problem?

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I don't think anyone has a problem with whats being done here...its NOTHING new...people have been able to buy small lots of CH ball pythons for years...

I think the point that has been beaten to death is the way it was marketed, and making such a big deal about such a slim chance to get more than you pay for is, in my opinion, teetering on being deceptive. Period. Others might have a different opinion, and we're all entitled to that. I'm not sure why the argument keeps going on...

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

I don't think anyone has a problem with whats being done here...its NOTHING new...people have been able to buy small lots of CH ball pythons for years...

I think the point that has been beaten to death is the way it was marketed, and making such a big deal about such a slim chance to get more than you pay for is, in my opinion, teetering on being deceptive. Period. Others might have a different opinion, and we're all entitled to that. I'm not sure why the argument keeps going on...

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What have they said that is in any way deceptive? I could understand your argument if they were charging a premium for these snakes because they are unopened bags but they are not. My main problem in this thread is people that have more than likley never opened a single bag from Africa and act like they know what they are talking about. Not even so much with finding odd looking snakes, but more so with the sex ratio. People claiming a 70% male ratio because that's what came out of 2 or 3 bags is rediculous.

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Originally Posted by pfan151

What have they said that is in any way deceptive?

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Lets get real here. This wasn't a lottery. It doesn't even resemble a lottery. A lottery involves there being a set winner or winners out of all who participate. With this marketing ploy, there is no guarantee of any winner at all. So lets just get that straight.

I feel like it was a huge blunder on the sellers part to overlook the fact that some potential future customers out there might take offense to the animals they love so much being treated as a commodity in a lottery type mentality. Not all are going to look at it like that, but this thread is appearant that many out there, in fact, did.

Had this been marketed as usual...CH Lots of 10 Normal Unsexed ball pythons...I guarantee you this wouldn't have been such a sensitive issue. Its a creative way to move snakes...and when you've got 5400 or so to move, I guess a little creativity never hurts.....