Disaster!

Now the next issue (as if dead rats and a mistreated cat weren't enough). Just how many rats did you have in that 10 gallon in the first place? Hard to tell from your post but I'm counting two females with litters....one referred to as crawling about, one as "hoppers".

Let's start with some info here....rats did NOT have a developmental stage referred to as "hoppers". That's mice not rats. Rats are pinks, fuzzies, pups, weanlings. If you are going to bother to breed living creatures you might like to do a bit of research on them.

Next, a ten gallon tank is in NO way a reasonable amount of space for more than one adult female rat and her nursing offspring. It does not have the floorspace nor the ventilation to allow for enough room and to prevent a buildup of ammonia from their urination. A ten gallon is perfectly fine for one adult rat and her offspring until weaning though with a larger litter it can get quite cramped as the rats grow to weaning age.

Sorry but if you make a decision to willfully breed living creatures I believe they deserve a reasonable level of care. That does NOT include overcrowding multiple breeding females and their offspring. It does include spending the time and funds to provide appropriate housing that is safe from predation by other household pets. Accidents happen, not realizing your cat would go after those breeding females and their young was NOT an accident. If the cat popped open the bedroom door, it should have been locked to prevent that occurring....a completely foreseeable event in my mind that the cat might try that.

Look Dizzie I can sugar coat this if you want.

Okay it's perfectly fine to stick just how many rats in a 10 gallon glass tank. It's perfectly reasonable to allow a cat, a species that any reasonable person knows instinctively hunts rodents, to have access to these rodents that cannot run away from said predator. It's completely amazing that a cat went after those rats and ate a couple...imagine that...who would have thought? Of course the appropriate response is to punish the cat by tossing it into a snow bank, then come online and post about it. Imagine anyone getting at all upset by this.

Look dear there are mistakes, everyone makes them, I've made a ton and will make more in the future I'm quite sure. Some things however are not mistakes or accidents and we as responsible, thinking humans are supposed to stand up to it, accept responsibility and learn from it. Not abuse some poor animal or have other animals living in substandard conditions in the first place. Sorry but there's not a lot of sugar I'm about to pour on this thread.

I once had a BP that ate my pet mouse when I let them play together in the same room. I threw that BP into the freezer to teach him a lesson. LOL

If the cat has access to the rats, this will happen over and over. Not the cats fault.

Ok, Well, I respect all of your opinions. Thanks. I also understand that the 10 gallon was too small for what I want to do. I had visited my local pet shop yesterday to purchase a ten gallon topper but now I am glad I didn't since the ten gallon is ruined. The plan as the first litter grew up was to move the snake to a 40 gallon and move the rats into the 20 long. But now I am just going to buy a rat cage after work today. I referred to the rats as hoppers because they are african soft furred and to call them weanling rats doesn't give you the right size description.
It is soooo easy for people to point the finger and blame someone based on what little you know about the person. I take very good care of all my animals. I do all the research first, buy them the best I can afford, and make them as happy as possible. They all get high quality foods, vet treatments whenever needed plus PE's, toys, teeth brushed (for those who have teeth except the cat),nails trimmed,coats brushed,regualr bathing,supplements,play time, excersize,ect. I think I am doing a mighty fine job thanks.

and ADIZZIEDOLL, thank you for standing up for me. I don't scout out message boards looking for someone who has made a mistake and then tell them off for it....pshhh....Instead of condeming someone like that,how about maybe suggesting a better way of doing things. Yes, I know you can not punish the cat. But he was in the way so I threw his fuzzy butt outside for like, what? an hour? There are outside cats out there and they get along living outside just fine. I brought the cat back in after all the broken glass was picked up and the rats were sequestered. PLus I was angry. Angry at the cat? Not really, more like angry at myself and the situation.

SHame on you guys for making me feel bad, like I don't feel bad enough as it is! I come onto boards like this to learn, and maybe make a friend or two. Thanks for making me feel like crap!

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Originally Posted by Wolfsnaps

Ok, Well, I respect all of your opinions. Thanks. I also understand that the 10 gallon was too small for what I want to do. I had visited my local pet shop yesterday to purchase a ten gallon topper but now I am glad I didn't since the ten gallon is ruined. The plan as the first litter grew up was to move the snake to a 40 gallon and move the rats into the 20 long. But now I am just going to buy a rat cage after work today. I referred to the rats as hoppers because they are african soft furred and to call them weanling rats doesn't give you the right size description.
It is soooo easy for people to point the finger and blame someone based on what little you know about the person. I take very good care of all my animals. I do all the research first, buy them the best I can afford, and make them as happy as possible. They all get high quality foods, vet treatments whenever needed plus PE's, toys, teeth brushed (for those who have teeth except the cat),nails trimmed,coats brushed,regualr bathing,supplements,play time, excersize,ect. I think I am doing a mighty fine job thanks.

and ADIZZIEDOLL, thank you for standing up for me. I don't scout out message boards looking for someone who has made a mistake and then tell them off for it....pshhh....Instead of condeming someone like that,how about maybe suggesting a better way of doing things. Yes, I know you can not punish the cat. But he was in the way so I threw his fuzzy butt outside for like, what? an hour? There are outside cats out there and they get along living outside just fine. I brought the cat back in after all the broken glass was picked up and the rats were sequestered. PLus I was angry. Angry at the cat? Not really, more like angry at myself and the situation.

SHame on you guys for making me feel bad, like I don't feel bad enough as it is! I come onto boards like this to learn, and maybe make a friend or two. Thanks for making me feel like crap!

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Putting the cat in another room and closing the door would have sufficed. Its great that you take care of your animals, but in this case you punished the cat for your mistake. People are judged by their actions, whether intentionally wrong or mistaken. Its what you do to make changes and turn things around that matters most. I love seeing new people here learning and becoming better caretakers for their pets and meeting new friends. I have met tons of people on here and made some great friends.

Wolfsnaps:

First; I am not condoning your method of correction for your pet’s unwanted actions. I feel that they may have been a little over the top. Now with that said your desire to correct the issue with the rats housing is commendable instead of hoping it never happened again and shows a great care for them and their well being.

Second; it is my two cents that "YES" a few members did jump on you a little hard. But as with any thing where you deal with different people you get different personalities (SP). Please don't take offence and know that the same person that bashes you for your rat/cat mishap today will be complementing you on your animals and congratulating on your new snake.

You can find friends here and will I promise

It's not our fault you "feel like crap" hon and not our responsibility to pat your back and say "awwww" when you didn't do right by either the rats or the cat. If you post threads where you might reasonably expect someone to go "you threw a cat out in the cold???" "you keep way too many rats stuffed in a far too small tank????" and then are upset because someone gave you a blunt response, then perhaps you are still looking for someone else to blame other than yourself.

I'll give you an example....recently we lost an 06 BP. It got loose because I personally messed up...not my husband....not my son whose snake it was...not the tub with the loose lid...me. I was overtired, forgot to properly check clips and one lovely snake is now likely dead due to my actions. Should I look for sympathy or call this an accident? Nope. When I posted about Helori's loss here and spoke privately to the BPNet member that bred her and gave her to my son I would not have minded being told I was a brainless fool. I know better, I know how snakes can escape and I was totally dumb to work with the snakes when barely awake.

I got a lot of support here because I have a long history of being anal about safety and so forth but I never expected to get it or figured I deserved it. I mostly posted so others would help me figure out how to tell my 5 year old that mom messed up and also to warn members to not do as I did and risk a snake dying as a result.

Sorry but if you want hand holding perhaps you should have posted how you messed up and how you plan to fix a situation or ask for advice. Not go off about how you tossed your cat outside because you were mad. Also don't tell me you spend a ton of your pets when you stuffed all those rats in a 10 gallon tank. They are $10.00 brand new at WalMart and another $12.00 for a good wire lid and clips, another $5.00 for a water bottle, $2.00 or less for a food dish. If you want to breed more females then you first spend the $29.00 on the tank and lid...not after they are all stuffed in there.

I don't see anything wrong with punishing a pet for misbehaving. After all, that's what everyone with a pet does when it misbehaves according to the owner whether it is due to instinct or personality. That's the whole point of taming and domesticating and animal so they can be used as a pet.

Some animals, such as our snakes, are unable to be tamed so we deal with it. However, animals such as cats and dogs have the capacity to learn and modify their behavior even if it goes against their instinct. It may be their instinct to bite everyone they don't know, but you wouldn't allow that type of behavior.

Now as far as how and when that animal is punished is a different story. Just like any other type of behavior modification, some can be cruel and ineffective and other methods are more positive and more effective. I don't think throwing the cat out in the snow taught it anything, but that doesn't mean it can't eventually be taught to stay away from the rat cage.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Next, a ten gallon tank is in NO way a reasonable amount of space for more than one adult female rat and her nursing offspring.
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Sorry, one last thing....I had one mother with a litter and a babysitter rat. I know, still too small. I totally agree. SO I am rectifying it sooner then I wanted to, but oh well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wolfsnaps

Ok, Well, I respect all of your opinions. Thanks. I also understand that the 10 gallon was too small for what I want to do. I had visited my local pet shop yesterday to purchase a ten gallon topper but now I am glad I didn't since the ten gallon is ruined.

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Are you telling us you had all this in a tank with no top? They were bound to get out anyway then. Why did you wait til everyone posted shaming you to tell us they were ASF?