jungle/jungle pastel/ pastel

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Well put! Oh and I really like the websight

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Thanks :).

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Originally Posted by slartibartfast

So are Enchis compatible with other lines of pastel? I had thought for some reason that they were a different morph.

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I'm not sure if it's been tried yet. But even if they aren't, it doesn't neccesarily mean they aren't the same gene. Axanthics, for example, are incompatible (at least some of the lines are... Adam knows Axanthics extremely well so perhaps he can elaborate on that).

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Originally Posted by ECLARK

Heres a pic of my jungle pastel, the difference is pattern variation.

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What line is that Ed?

The jungle looking pastel was originally a graziani, but breeding to a jungle looking normal erased the blushing and copied the mother normals pattern. could never duplicate that pattern? :)

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Originally Posted by slartibartfast

And where do Ruppel pastels fit into the scheme of things?

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I'm really not sure. The more recent Pastel lines (Enchi and Rupple's especially) have had a lot of claims thrown about. Most notably, that they are "completely different" and other such things.

The only way to prove they are different genes is to breed them together. Until that's been done, I think it's premature to just assume it's two distinct genes at work. As far as I know, no one has bred them together as of yet, so we can't be making such big assumptions.

Until I see a Ruppel and Graziani breed and produce two different morphs, I consider them the same gene.

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Originally Posted by ECLARK

The jungle looking pastel was originally a graziani, but breeding to a jungle looking normal erased the blushing and copied the mother normals pattern. could never duplicate that pattern? :)

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Very interesting. I'm sure you have other projects in mind, but it would certainly be interesting to see it bred to another Graziani and see if the Supers retain the Graziani "Super" blushing.

I guess that this question is related.. how about "blonde" pastels? most of the ones I saw just looked like regular pastels that browned out a little...?

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

I guess that this question is related.. how about "blonde" pastels? most of the ones I saw just looked like regular pastels that browned out a little...?

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Pretty much the same deal. Unfortunately, the only cross-line breeding I KNOW of is a Lemon to a Graziani, which did produce a super. I've HEARD that most of the "Classic" lines have been bred to each other as well, also resulting in supers.

Basically, when we breed what we *think* are two lines together, the potential results are as follows:

If a Super is produced: Same gene.
If all normals: Same gene (but non-complimentary).
If you get two "different" morphs and some normals: Different gene.

The problem with such determinations is that they aren't concrete in a single breeding season. It's possible to get all normals even if they are non-complimentary. On top of that, there is only a 25% chance of producing Supers.

Worst of all, some of the lines (the Ruppel and Graziani especially) can come in a WIDE variety of flavors, so one may be confused into believing there are two different morphs, when it's really one morph with several abborant versions.

So unless someone is willing to dedicate two different pastels for one to three breeding seasons, we won't know with 100% accuracy. The risk is even higher considering mixed crosses may not even sell.

An Enchi Pastel is NOT compatible with other Pastels...An Enchi is it's own Morph...

I am mainly working with Blonde Pastels...They tend to look better as adults...Here are some pics...Jon

Adult Blonde Pastel x Black Pastel
http://coldbloodedaddiction.com/site...nnyxblonde.jpg
'06 Blonde Pastel
http://coldbloodedaddiction.com/site...astel5-065.jpg
'06 Blonde Pastel and VPI Axanthic
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...Female046l.jpg
'06 Blonde Pastel
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...mpastel3-1.jpg

I also produce some really nice Pastels with this male from RDR...
http://coldbloodedaddiction.com/site...pastelmale.jpg

Forgot...Here is a pic of a hatchling from my RDR Line Pastel for comparison...Jon

'06 RDR Line Pastel
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...astelMale2.jpg

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Originally Posted by coldbloodaddict

An Enchi Pastel is NOT compatible with other Pastels...An Enchi is it's own Morph...

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Okay, well show me a picture of a Double Codom Enchi x Pastel and I'll believe you. I've never heard of it, but that will certainly prove the case!

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Originally Posted by jhall1468

Okay, well show me a picture of a Double Codom Enchi x Pastel and I'll believe you. I've never heard of it, but that will certainly prove the case!

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I don't know that there is one, but I know there is a Stinger Bee (Enchi X Spider) that looks nothing like a Bumble Bee...