The effects of ball pythons on the reptile community

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

I agree with the final outcome. However, I find myself wondering how long the 'wild ride' will last and what is going to be dropped off before the ride is over.

This whole thread was brought about because someone said something along the lines of "The current ball python situation brings nothing but shame to the reptile community".....that got me thinking, thats all ;)

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Signs point to not much longer. ;) :sweeet:

-adam

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

The thing is some people got rid of their 'other snake' collections in order to focus on ball pythons......has that hurt the community or benefited it?

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IMHO, those who are able to dump other collection of snakes for Ball pythons simply because of a fad or money, will dump their Ball python collections as soon as the next gravy train pulls up or Ball Pythons are no longer meeting their expectations.

IMHO, there is no negative in owning ball pythons, just the problems brought on by those simply owning them for money.

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

That is not always the case. Sometimes the law closes down....after all, the government sometimes feels like it has to remain in control somehow. For example, they say that it is perfectly fine to own snakes....but you must have a permit.

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Or, as was the case of the New York state legislation that we're all familiar with, a bunch of herpers banded together and educated the legislature on how their law would include harmless boids, such as ball pythons, in its original draft. Would that have happened if ball pythons and other smaller harmless constrictors weren't economically valuable enough to get people organized? The average keeper with one snake probably wouldn't have cared enough to get involved.

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

Corn snakes.....docile temperment, easy care requirements, and variety of color morphs......they also carry a lower price tag. Brazilian rainbow boas are up and coming too ;)

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Yeah, but corn snakes are stringy little boogers that poop too much. Balls are wayyyy cooler...

Brazilians are cool, but much more sensitive to bad husbandry than ball pythons, which in my opinion will be a limitation to their potential as a "mainstream" pet to have. Do you think a brazilian would survive a month in a 10 gal tank with a heat lamp in someone's living room? Of course not...

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

The thing is some people got rid of their 'other snake' collections in order to focus on ball pythons......has that hurt the community or benefited it?

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If "getting rid" of their collection didn't involve sticking it in the freezer or flushing it down the toilet...someone bought it...how could that be a bad thing if someone else was interested?

You do it because you love the animals first! Those who only think of $ and do not appreciate or respect their animals are sure to be disapointed with whatever happens.

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

Or, as was the case of the New York state legislation that we're all familiar with, a bunch of herpers banded together and educated the legislature on how their law would include harmless boids, such as ball pythons, in its original draft. Would that have happened if ball pythons and other smaller harmless constrictors weren't economically valuable enough to get people organized? The average keeper with one snake probably wouldn't have cared enough to get involved.

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We tried to do the same thing in Louisiana. The only reason the legislation did not get 'permiting' passed for ALL snakes was because an important 'Katrina' issue held up the Congress and they did not get a chance to have the final vote before the close of the session. We had over 50+ people crowded in the legislation room opposing the bill (not all were financially involved with a breeding business) and it was still getting pushed forward. We had to sit there and listen to the State Rep talk about how 'The only good snake is a dead one". Economics?.....The CEO of Fluker Farms was there showing opposition to the bill.....a multimillion dollar company showing opposition and it still was moving forward! Just because something like that would work in New York does not mean that it would work elsewhere. Some people are ignorant about snakes....and refuse to be educated.

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

We tried to do the same thing in Louisiana. The only reason the legislation did not get 'permiting' passed for ALL snakes was because an important 'Katrina' issue held up the Congress and they did not get a chance to have the final vote before the close of the session. We had over 50+ people crowded in the legislation room opposing the bill (not all were financially involved with a breeding business) and it was still getting pushed forward. We had to sit there and listen to the State Rep talk about how 'The only good snake is a dead one". Economics?.....The CEO of Fluker Farms was there showing opposition to the bill.....a multimillion dollar company showing opposition and it still was moving forward! Just because something like that would work in New York does not mean that it would work elsewhere. Some people are ignorant about snakes....and refuse to be educated.

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I've had a little bit of exposure to the legislative process in Virginia, and one thing I can say is that crowding the legislative hall on the day that a bill is supposed to be voted on falls far short of taking a proactive approach to influencing legislation - especially when you've got a lawmaking body that is already consumed by making policy for disaster relief.

People involved in the NY State situation sat down with the people who drafted the bill far in advance of the vote and got the wording of the bill changed. In contrast, storming the courthouse, so to speak, won't get you very far.

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

State Rep talk about how 'The only good snake is a dead one". Some people are ignorant about snakes....and refuse to be educated.

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Unfortunate side effect of not being able to think out side of ones buns... :no:

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

People involved in the NY State situation sat down with the people who drafted the bill far in advance of the vote

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No one stormed the legislature. We were there to show our support and show that the issue was important to us. In our case, the people who drafted the bill were an animal rights activist stating "Ball pythons kill people" and the State Rep that was screaming "I don't care. If I see a snake, I kill it". There was no compromise.

Not to mention that, fellow herpers only seemed to have their own interests in mind when pushing for change. Kingsnake owners wanted an exemption for kingsnakes only......instead of presenting a united front, they caved and were only looking out for themselves. The Louisiana Gulf Coast Herp. Society had worked with the state in previous years to develop proper legislation. That is where our current licensing for 12+ constrictors and venomous snakes came from. Last year the issue arose 'out of the blue'.

Don't for a second think that New York's (or any states') laws are 'set in stone'....all it takes is from one ignorant bastard to come along....and they will be voting on the issue again.

imo, balls are the snakes that can go mainstream! with allthe morphs/colors, temperment and handable size. i think this would be positive for all herps. if the morphs bring in someone new to reptiles, it's only a matter of time before they explore other herps as well.


vaughn

Perfect eventual size, amazing variations and temperment, are all the reasons ball pythons are at the top of the game. I think balls have brought more people in too the reptile hobby than any other reptile. So yes I feel they have been a positive. These are snakes that our kids can handle and enjoy without any worries.