breeding back to back litters

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Originally Posted by recycling goddess

and tekwarren... you are talking about mice, not rats.

any pics so we can get a better idea of what you're saying? i'd really appreciate it.

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Actually I'm talking about my rodent observations in general. Mice where an example.

What sort of pic are you asking for...I'm not sure what I'm being unclear about...sorry.

I suppose if I had a rack setup and the space I might do something like snakeysnake suggests. I don't have THAT many rodents and as I said I'm geting large healthy litters. To me "large" means 12-15 per litter just to clarify.

Here's another another thing I have observed you guys can feel free to comment on one way or the other. I find that I have less (maybe none) loss of babies or even visible runts when I have multiple females lactating and caring for mixed litters.

As I said above in *my* experience and with the program I have going and even in the past I've not had issues with life span or health. My rodents thrive, if they didn't I wouldn't be doing this. I want quality food for my snakes and that means putting quality into all my rodents in every aspect of keeping them. I will never say someone else's way is wrong but I will also passionately explain my personal methods that are *working for me*. There could be variables in *my* methods that give me different results. For example I mentioned I provide alot of room for my rodents maybe that prevents some of the issues others are speaking of. Also Jeane says that males have a sole purpose to procreate...yes but still I can say that my males have a purpose in their "community" as well and are not as harsh on the females as maybe some of you have experienced. My tub groups are VERY social with each other and its not all sexually related.

Alot of my current breeders are over a year old and have never been seperated from the males. The are all very healthy and still have larger litters. Like I stated earlier, I have never had females get pregnant and give birth while nursing a previous litter or right after. Who knows, maybe I just have lazy males.

I think we all just have to realize that is more than one way to successfully raise rodents. For what we know about rodents in the wild, none of us really know what really happens in the wild. So we have to raise our rodents and base our decisions on our own observations. We can only give recommendations to people based on our experience. Obviously temps, location, genetic strains, feed, caging, elevation etc will cause a variety of outcomes. So do what works for you. :rockon:

I couldn't agree more Bill, and that's all I wanted to get across :)

I keep my males in with the girls too, and have not noticed any reduction in litter sizes or unhealthy females. I run 1.3 or 1.4 in cement mixing tubs (used to run 1.5, but it gets too crowded if a few females have litters at the same time). After their first litter, the moms don't fight over the babies, and they help each other out a lot. The females will go into heat again within hours of giving birth, but females can delay implantation, and lactaction does delay birth for a few extra days. Both of these measures have evolved so that thier previous litters are big enough to be weaned, and that they have enough energy for thier next litter. I have females that are a year-and-a-half old and still producing good sized litters for me. I feel that given good housing conditions and a good diet, males and females can be housed together constantly without compromising the health of the females.

-Evan

sorry guys... (and yup i mean guys cause you notice so far, only men feel that breeding back to back litters is okay for the female) https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...4/7/pissed.gif but i just don't believe that this is healthy for your females... so, i'm going to step out of this conversation cause i don't think i can be my 'polite' self in this thread. :bolt:

I'm sorry you feel that you can't continue an adult conversation. I also don't like the fact that you point out that all males have posted so far...that has NOTHING to do with all the real world EXPERIENCE that has been shared in this topic. You are entitled to your oppinion sure as are we and we have been giving details and examples of each of our personal experiences...why don't you share yours?

I agree, I really don't see what my sex has to do with it. If I had posted that the other way and stated the same things about females how many people would have jumped down my throat? :colbert:

actually i'm new to breeding ratties. but in all the posts i've read by jo, christie, becky etc they have told me to remove the male and to even give the female her own space to birth rather than leaving her with her female tank-mates. when i bred mice for an owl santuary years ago... i kept females together and just introduced the males for a day... and then removed them again. after the female gave birth and raised her pups... she was given 3-4 weeks minimum before being reintroduced to a male again. at that point i have about 30 tanks with 2-3 females in each one. my male lived alone except when he was 'visiting' the ladies.

but as someone else mentioned... cats having litter after litter isn't good for them either... so why would it be good for ratties? go on any site that cares about rats and you'll see them all say "do not let the rats breed right away after giving birth as it isn't good for them healthwise"

so... instead of argueing, i was choosing to step out of the conversation. the admins have asked us to be polite in our responses.... and for me... hearing that these rats are being treated like chickens or turkeys in farms... (as i'm against their living conditions as well) - i just have nothing polite to add to this thread...

...Are you not reading our posts then?? EVERYONE who has posted that says they keep their males in with the females has said that back to back litters only happens RARELY if ever. All of us also have healthy adults producing healthy offspring...what's to argue about? It keeps coming across that you are trying to tell all of us who have been doing this for years...successfully without issues... that we are wrong in doing so. No one has once said that you where wrong OR that our ways where the right ways. Why can't you just accept the fact that myself and others are doing works for us and that our animals live healthy lives? The only one trying to argue is you unless I'm sorely mistaken but that is the way your coming across. Have I or anyone else not been polite when trying to explain these facts?

i have politely said i have nothing to add... in my eyes, this conversation is over. sorry tekwarren... :bolt:

feel free to discuss it without me though... i don't mind at all https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...4/7/hippie.gif