Choices, Choices..

i am not talking about monitors. the person that did the test on the "reptile UV bulbs" owns and adult bearded dragon and hasnt used UV at all. ive seen pictures of the animal and it is completely healthy. the person that bred the generations of bearded dragons didnt use any UV bulbs either. i aven't seen pictures of them, though, because it was years ago.

If you are looking for an easier lizard that will not require as much care as beardeds, I would look into anything Sceloporus...i.e. Crevice spiny lizards, emerald swifts, fence lizards.....they are all great to keep, stay smaller so they require less food and space, and are not as pricy as most other lizards.

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Originally Posted by mr~python

i am not talking about monitors. the person that did the test on the "reptile UV bulbs" owns and adult bearded dragon and hasnt used UV at all. ive seen pictures of the animal and it is completely healthy. the person that bred the generations of bearded dragons didnt use any UV bulbs either. i aven't seen pictures of them, though, because it was years ago.

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I know what you are talking about.....LOL....been reading Frank Rete's posts on Kingsnake too much ;)

....this kinda stuff is somewhat still in the theroretical phase IMO....light brightness being more important than UV light...all that good stuff. Once a few more big breeders document what they are doing, we should see if this stuff is really as good as everyone believes :)

....but for now and for beardeds I would use what is proven and that would mean using UVB :)

im not talking bout Frank Retes. personally i think some of his theories are way out left field and i dont go on kingsnake monitor forum at all anymore. im talking about about 2 people on a few other forums that keep bearded dragons.

I would not recommend to others something that you do not know for a fact.
For now, it has been proven that UVB is necessary. You have NOT proven that it is optional. Provide some support, some proof before providing advice such as "You do not need UV bulbs for your bearded dragon".

As others have stated, UVB IS, in fact, necessary.

i just did prove it. i know of people that keep and breed bearded dragons with GREAT success without the use of any UV bulbs. how is that not proving that it is not necessary?? i think some people the reptile hobby dont understand to not look to high tech tests on UV output in bulbs, etc., etc. and to look at the animals themselves. its common sense!

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Originally Posted by mr~python

for UV lighting i know keepers that have bred generations without using any. just white light heat bulbs during the day. i personally think UV bulbs are a scam. one person on another forum has tested the output of them with a UV meter and it was very minimul. not even close to the UV outside in the sun during the day.

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OK....who is it you know that have bred generations WITHOUT using any uv? I cant tell ya now, I have NEVER EVER heard of anyone who breeds and sells healthy beardies to not have any uv at all... thats just nuts.... but I would still like to know who does this so I may speak with them about thier rediculous notion of not having uv on beardies... would love to hear thier scientific data and acquire it for my review....

Marshall, please do not ever, recommend that someone with or wanting a beardie to not buy the appropriate lighting. I have several beardeds, I can tell you this, they DO REQUIRE uv... there is no way around that if you want a healthy beardie..however, if you want a dead beardie..go ahead, dont provide it any uv...

PERSONAL EXPERIENCE: I have a certain family member, who bought beardies, swore that they did not need uv..guess what, they died b/c of MBD. Even with appropriate supplimentation.... however, without uv, they were unable to produce vitamin d3 sufficiently..which means they do not matabolize calcium correctly, leading to MBD.

Mr~python,

you are only digging your own grave.
Just please stop now. Saying that you know of some guy that doesnt use UV bulbs is NOT providing any proof.
It is just common sense not to open your mouth when you don't know what you are talking about.
Once again, please do not go around spreading misinformation without proof and/or documentation...someone might actually listen to you. Whats next? Snakes dont really need any heat? They arent really coldblooded?

If you are going to contradict a longstanding commonly accepted truth such as this, you have to bring more to the table than "I know some people that keep beardies with great success without UV bulbs"

Not a bash, just a request. Dont give advice if you dont know what you are talking about. How many beardies do YOU have?

none, i have no beardies. thats why i never spoke of things that i have done with them. i spoke of what i know other successful keepers and breeders have done.
the keeper that bred them posted in this thread http://www.varanus.nl/forum1/viewtopic.php?id=324

im not digging any grave, just discussing.

Marshall, just b/c he says he bred "crap loads of them years ago" does not mean anything.. heck, I could go around saying I have bred "crap loads of komodos years ago" and it dont neccessarily mean anything. Personally, Marshall, I think you should consider the source of that info as being un-reliable.

IME Marshall, dragons DO NEED uv. See my post above outlining my experience.