Morph Q's

I sense some hostility there :P but I totally get it that one guy is trying to undercut everyone to make a quick buck, and that isn't cool for the BP market.


but at the same time as a consumer, you can pay 1500-2000 for a snake, or buy one for 200. It's not a hard choice for most. But i'm not saying that it's right for a guy to be doing that, and he's obviously infamous if he's known by name.

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Originally Posted by snaker35

I sense some hostility there :P but I totally get it that one guy is trying to undercut everyone to make a quick buck, and that isn't cool for the BP market.


but at the same time as a consumer, you can pay 1500-2000 for a snake, or buy one for 200. It's not a hard choice for most. But i'm not saying that it's right for a guy to be doing that, and he's obviously infamous if he's known by name.

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LOL ... Nope, no hostility here ... I'll be making money in this hobby/business long after the Jimmy's have packed up and moved on ... Jimmy actually helps my business, because when his customers realize that Jimmy gave them a great "short term" deal, but screwed them over the long haul, they come to me when they're ready to make a future investment ... by then they can actually see past the nose on the end of their face and realize that buying from a breeder that will help them maximize the return on their investment over the long haul is well worth the extra bucks up front ... many times over. ;)

I LOVE IT! :D

-adam

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Originally Posted by snaker35

but at the same time as a consumer, you can pay 1500-2000 for a snake, or buy one for 200.

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I don't think there's THAT much of a difference between the same animals.... Here's an example of what I'm talking about, and what you're talking about...

If I wanted to buy a pair of Lessers off of Kingsnake... I could find one (evidently, via another thread on here) for 12k..

If I wanted to have an animal in my collection DIRECTLY from the source of lessers... and be guaranteed even 3 years down the road when my lesser bred to something else that everything was going to be perfect, then I would gladly pay the extra dough to get it straight from the source, and from a guy that keeps a multi-million dollar collection... AND produced my animal himself.

For me, it all comes down to service, quality, and the passion that the breeder has in his/her animals.... When you find a breeder like that, then you can trust that what you're getting is the real deal, and not some nice looking mojave that they're upset they can't move for last year's prices, so they're out to recoup their investment and screw anyone that will take it.

Just my thoughts...

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Originally Posted by ddbjdealer

If I wanted to have an animal in my collection DIRECTLY from the source of lessers... and be guaranteed even 3 years down the road when my lesser bred to something else that everything was going to be perfect, then I would gladly pay the extra dough to get it straight from the source

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I don't think I could have put that any better myself. I think this also applies to any morph. Buy from a reputable person who bred the snake at their facility, and you can't go wrong.

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

LOL ... Nope, no hostility here ... I'll be making money in this hobby/business long after the Jimmy's have packed up and moved on ... Jimmy actually helps my business, because when his customers realize that Jimmy gave them a great "short term" deal, but screwed them over the long haul, they come to me when they're ready to make a future investment ... by then they can actually see past the nose on the end of their face and realize that buying from a breeder that will help them maximize the return on their investment over the long haul is well worth the extra bucks up front ... many times over. ;)

I LOVE IT! :D

-adam

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What about those who aren't interested in an animal as an investment? Is the average Joe Ball Python hobbyist ever going to be able to afford anything other than "normals"? I would love to have a spider, but I'm not willing to turn this "hobby" into a "job" just to make it happen...If Jimmy doesn't start breeding Spiders am I SOL??? :)

The thing is, there will always be a lot more and up and coming Jimmy's with very little overhead, maybe a pair of snakes to a small collection, breeding out of their spare bedroom or within their bedroom, advertising on KS and other classifieds, asking $2000 for a Spider or $400 for a Pastel or $1500 for an Albino or $600 for an Albino boa or $3000 for a Sunglow boa.

Does this mean Jimmy is a scammer, Jimmy is ripping people off, Jimmy doesn't have the goods, Jimmy doesn't care for his animals, does this make them bad guys? Does the dog owner who bred his pet bulldogs even think or care about the impact he'll have selling those Bulldog babies (sold at the local pet shop for $1000) at $750 will have on the Dog market and/or economy? Does the buyer of these $750.00 Bulldogs buying direct from a breeder even care that the pet shop did not make the sale?

Example:

Breeder A sells his Spider BP for $2000, Breeder B is asking $3500 for the same quality Spider.

Both are good breeders, same tubs, same feeder supplier, both bought their adults from the same well known breeder 3yrs ago, both will answer your questions on breeding, care, etc, etc, etc.


Breeder B has a few choices:
1) Lower his prices.

2) Discredit breeder A.

3) Hope someone justifies paying an extra $1500, 75% more than breeder A.

4) Shelf those animals till they are older or someone eventually buys them.


Sure, I don't like seeing boas I paid $1500 last year being sold for $600-$750 all over the place, but what can anyone do…pull your hair out, trash these guys who are just trying to make a buck for lowering their prices, write them each a nasty email as to how they are costing you money, it's a free market!

To a lot of people saving $50-$100-$500-$1000-$5000 is a lot of money, can anyone blame them for looking at the price tag?

If that Spider is worth/priced at $2000 by Jimmy, who are we to tell him "Hey idiot, you know your undercutting my price by $1500, raise your price!".

Or

The buyer who saved $1500 on the Spider, received a Spider, is thrilled with the Spider, "Hey idiot, you know that by buying that snake you just cost me $1500!".

It's like sitting in the Sears board room listening to VP's complain about Wal-Mart and Target prices. While they sit and complain about Wal-Mart, Wal-Mart grew another $10Billion.

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Originally Posted by ssscales

While they sit and complain about Wal-Mart, Wal-Mart grew another $10Billion.

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Damned Wal-Mart! They're gonna rule the world one day I tell ya, rule the world!

Ssscales makes a lot of sense.

There are, however, always going to be con artists, though. -Shrugs.- Personally, I'd buy my hets locally from reptile expos from people I know, and buy my homos from reputable breeders (When I have the money!) -Shrugs.-

I'm even a little squimish about buying hets from a show...once the shows over, and the vendor disappears, what happens three, four, five years down the road when your
"bad odds" start making you think you got scammed?

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Originally Posted by Melicious

Ssscales makes a lot of sense.

There are, however, always going to be con artists, though. -Shrugs.- Personally, I'd buy my hets locally from reptile expos from people I know, and buy my homos from reputable breeders (When I have the money!) -Shrugs.-

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I prefer when buying Hets or any snake to buy from solid reputable breeder Vs wholesalers or resellers, whether they are local or not doesn't make a difference.

If you can see what your buying before buying it, it's always a plus. Anytime you send money online to anyone for anything, you should know who you're dealing with and ask around from others that have had dealing with them.

The internet has added a lot of value and has done a lot of good, but also has made it difficult to separate the bad from good in some cases. Just look at the TSE situation for example, here was a somewhat good guy turned real bad from one day to the next!

There are scammers you can see coming a mile away and others you won't see till they have $1000 of your cash! The best advise I can give, is do your homework regardless!

The cheapest on the block isn't always the best deal, and just because someone is the most expensive on the block doesn't mean you get what you pay for!

There are exceptions in everything! Absolutely you've got good honest breeders selling at the low end of the market, the same way you've got breeders selling crap at the high end with zero customer service.