Back to Basics ...

So we know how they roll over at rtb.net. They deleted all my posts and banned me. I'm so sad :) . I disagreed with the "head purveyor of inaccuracies" and that apparently is unacceptable. Wow..

Yes - they are a totally unaccepting community - if that one person deems anything to be "wrong" - they all assume the same - sheep ...!!!

I really can't be bothered with that place any more - I only went there for the monitor forum TBH and the one person there that had any multiple-monitor experience very rarely posts - so, a waste of time. I've now deleted them from my favorites - if I can't do anything, I'd rather not know for my own peace of mind. I feel sorry for the snakes and the owners that know no better but want to learn - their snakes aren't going to get better there - like I said in my original post - if a snake is not hot enough to digest its food - it isn't going to eat.

Sorry you feel that way Raz. You seemed like a nice person. We hate to loose you there.

I did not come here to return the favor to JGlass who saw fit to troll our site in a very childish manner, calling names, insulting people etc. No one banned you Mr Glass, You got yourself banned.

Anyway...I'd like to shed a little light on where I'm coming from with these ball python temps.

Ball pythons don't dig heat. They hate it. GO to Africa and find me one ever laying out in the sun. They don't do it. They avoid the heat by going into cool underground burrows whenever possible and coming out at night. If they can't get to a burrow and there is some shade hanging over the water, you might find them cooling off that way if they can find such a spot where they can avoid predation. ANYWAY...

YES! ALL the caresheets say 90s to mid 80s. The reason they all say that is because back in the caveman days of the reptile pettrade, someone wrote that on a caresheet by assuming that if it's hot where they live, it needs to be hot in the cage. Ball pythons can survive quite well in a great variety of conditions so it didn't kill them so it must be right...so the regurgitation began and spread to what it is now. Outdated and wrong.

This very line of thinking btw is what made keeping emeralds alive near impossible until recent years. Dr Henderson finally climbed some trees in South America and recorded the temps and humidity up where the snakes were. While it was in the 90s down on the ground, up in the trees under the shade of the canopy where it was humid and acbreezy cool low 80s...all of a sudden, we can keep emeralds alive. If ball pythons weren't so resiliant and forgiving, we would be having the same issues with them. Climb down a dirt hole and check the temps! Its not in the 90s.

The earth wasn't flat before Christopher Columbus proved it was round. He just showed people that sometimes what we all grow up hearing and accepting...may need a little tweek of reality and updating now and then.

Give it a try. It's not going to kill your ball pythons if they don't have a 94 basking spot for a week. Turn it down to 85 and let the cool side drop into the high 70s. You will notice they still stay on the cool side most of the time but will go bask...thermoregulation is a good thing :) Staying in one spot all the time because they have to avoid being baked is a bad thing. Try it. :) It's not like I've got some plot going to kill everybody's ball pythons. The people that defended my views on this at RTB only did so because I convinced them to try it and what do you know? Their nonfeeding ball pythons are now all worry free and doing great. Why? overheating them kills their gut flora (beneficial bacteria needed to digest food) If that goes and add a little stress..they ain't eating. Once that's all corrected, ball pythons are among the least of worries on feeding day, year around. I haven't had a ball python in my care skip a single meal in YEARS after being kept at proper temps for a couple of weeks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JuliusSqueezer

Sorry you feel that way Raz. You seemed like a nice person. We hate to loose you there.

I did not come here to return the favor to JGlass who saw fit to troll our site in a very childish manner, calling names, insulting people etc. No one banned you Mr Glass, You got yourself banned.

Anyway...I'd like to shed a little light on where I'm coming from with these ball python temps.

Ball pythons don't dig heat. They hate it. GO to Africa and find me one ever laying out in the sun. They don't do it. They avoid the heat by going into cool underground burrows whenever possible and coming out at night. If they can't get to a burrow and there is some shade hanging over the water, you might find them cooling off that way if they can find such a spot where they can avoid predation. ANYWAY...

YES! ALL the caresheets say 90s to mid 80s. The reason they all say that is because back in the caveman days of the reptile pettrade, someone wrote that on a caresheet by assuming that if it's hot where they live, it needs to be hot in the cage. Ball pythons can survive quite well in a great variety of conditions so it didn't kill them so it must be right...so the regurgitation began and spread to what it is now. Outdated and wrong.

This very line of thinking btw is what made keeping emeralds alive near impossible until recent years. Dr Henderson finally climbed some trees in South America and recorded the temps and humidity up where the snakes were. While it was in the 90s down on the ground, up in the trees under the shade of the canopy where it was humid and acbreezy cool low 80s...all of a sudden, we can keep emeralds alive. If ball pythons weren't so resiliant and forgiving, we would be having the same issues with them. Climb down a dirt hole and check the temps! Its not in the 90s.

The earth wasn't flat before Christopher Columbus proved it was round. He just showed people that sometimes what we all grow up hearing and accepting...may need a little tweek of reality and updating now and then.

Give it a try. It's not going to kill your ball pythons if they don't have a 94 basking spot for a week. Turn it down to 85 and let the cool side drop into the high 70s. You will notice they still stay on the cool side most of the time but will go bask...thermoregulation is a good thing :) Staying in one spot all the time because they have to avoid being baked is a bad thing. Try it. :) It's not like I've got some plot going to kill everybody's ball pythons. The people that defended my views on this at RTB only did so because I convinced them to try it and what do you know? Their nonfeeding ball pythons are now all worry free and doing great. Why? overheating them kills their gut flora (beneficial bacteria needed to digest food) If that goes and add a little stress..they ain't eating. Once that's all corrected, ball pythons are among the least of worries on feeding day, year around. I haven't had a ball python in my care skip a single meal in YEARS after being kept at proper temps for a couple of weeks.

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Drivel best kept on your forum I think. I tried to make valid points over there but unfortunately the zealots believe what they want to. The Kool-Aid must be REALLY tasty!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JuliusSqueezer

Sorry you feel that way Raz. You seemed like a nice person. We hate to loose you there.

I did not come here to return the favor to JGlass who saw fit to troll our site in a very childish manner, calling names, insulting people etc. No one banned you Mr Glass, You got yourself banned.

Anyway...I'd like to shed a little light on where I'm coming from with these ball python temps.

Ball pythons don't dig heat. They hate it. GO to Africa and find me one ever laying out in the sun. They don't do it. They avoid the heat by going into cool underground burrows whenever possible and coming out at night. If they can't get to a burrow and there is some shade hanging over the water, you might find them cooling off that way if they can find such a spot where they can avoid predation. ANYWAY...

YES! ALL the caresheets say 90s to mid 80s. The reason they all say that is because back in the caveman days of the reptile pettrade, someone wrote that on a caresheet by assuming that if it's hot where they live, it needs to be hot in the cage. Ball pythons can survive quite well in a great variety of conditions so it didn't kill them so it must be right...so the regurgitation began and spread to what it is now. Outdated and wrong.

This very line of thinking btw is what made keeping emeralds alive near impossible until recent years. Dr Henderson finally climbed some trees in South America and recorded the temps and humidity up where the snakes were. While it was in the 90s down on the ground, up in the trees under the shade of the canopy where it was humid and acbreezy cool low 80s...all of a sudden, we can keep emeralds alive. If ball pythons weren't so resiliant and forgiving, we would be having the same issues with them. Climb down a dirt hole and check the temps! Its not in the 90s.

The earth wasn't flat before Christopher Columbus proved it was round. He just showed people that sometimes what we all grow up hearing and accepting...may need a little tweek of reality and updating now and then.

Give it a try. It's not going to kill your ball pythons if they don't have a 94 basking spot for a week. Turn it down to 85 and let the cool side drop into the high 70s. You will notice they still stay on the cool side most of the time but will go bask...thermoregulation is a good thing :) Staying in one spot all the time because they have to avoid being baked is a bad thing. Try it. :) It's not like I've got some plot going to kill everybody's ball pythons. The people that defended my views on this at RTB only did so because I convinced them to try it and what do you know? Their nonfeeding ball pythons are now all worry free and doing great. Why? overheating them kills their gut flora (beneficial bacteria needed to digest food) If that goes and add a little stress..they ain't eating. Once that's all corrected, ball pythons are among the least of worries on feeding day, year around. I haven't had a ball python in my care skip a single meal in YEARS after being kept at proper temps for a couple of weeks.

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BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!!! All I see coming out of your mouth once again(not just RTB I see) is "I'm a mean old grumpy man!!!"

Brett, I really don't want to argue with you, you helped me once when I had an issue with my hoggy having a probiotic - and that was really appreciated.

Like I said, I was concerned when the person posting originally said her snake wasn't eating (I wasn't worried about the yawning) and she said her warm side was "about" 80 degrees (she thought) I suppose I should also have asked if she used a digital thermometer. My first thought was "it isn't hot enough for a BP to digest its meal".

The first person to tell me I was talking crap doesn't even own a BP. On an earlier posting about a month or two ago when I suggested to somebody they upped their temps somebody else said low 80s is optimum for a BP. It's against all the research I did when I first ever had my BP. As for my BP, apart from the first week when she was settling in, my temps haven't moved and she has eaten every meal I've given her and sheds beautifully and is in good strong body shape.

Like I said, I hesitate with this post because you've been kind enough to help me with that issue in the past - but I am truly concerned about this temp business.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JuliusSqueezer

Climb down a dirt hole and check the temps! Its not in the 90s.

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What is the temp in said dirt hole?

Pork...still bitter about being banned I see :) Ol Porky here felt a need to answer all the help posts whether he knew what he was talking about or didn't...while it's easy I guess for someone who regurges information and who has no experience of his own to draw from to mistake mineral spirts and mineral oil...advising someone to feed a snake that wasn't even really constipated in the first place, paint thinner was beyond reckless and dangerous and typical of pseudoexperts driveling out advice based on things they read but have no idea what they are talking about. You were told to stop giving advice. You were welcome to chat and stay and learn...but you just had to keep trying to help...so you had to go. One day you will understand why. It's funny because your ban was about to expire and I was going to email you and invite you back with conditions. Suddenly I don't feel the urge anymore.

Raz...80 for a hot spot is too cool. 4 or 5 degrees makes a huge difference to a cold blooded animal. So it's no shock that your snake is doing better...but be honest. How much time is that snake spending in that 90 degree basking area? Just take some time and moniter and make adjustments till you find a happy medium somewhere where the snake uses more than just the coolest side of the cage and you will have a trouble free pet.

Doesn't anyone else wonder why we have as a community become so accepting that ball pythons "just go off feed" for long stretches? Like it's normal? If set up properly with cooler temps, I promise you, a ball python is as reliable a feeder as any other snake on the planet...even wild caught ones once you get them destressed and dewormed are NO problem.

Try this...does anyone have a really big cage empty...like a 6 footer that they can put an adult ball python in? Set it up with a huge gradient with a 92 degree basking spot on one end, an 85 degree basking spot in the middle and a cool 78 degree cool spot and put plenty of hides and multiple water bowls so that the snake feels secure anywhere it wants to go and let the snake decide. I did this several times over a 2 year period with several ball pythons except I never let anything get over 90....None of them ever bothered with the 90 degree area even for a little while. They seek out the cool spot and hang out there. They bask for a little while in the mid 80s after they eat sometimes but sometimes they didn't even do that. One thing that was consistant though...they ate. Most of them put burms to shame with their feeding reponse. WATCH your snakes! Having a 94 degree hot spot is pointless if they don't go there. If your snake is staying on the cool side all the time...and if you have a 94 degree basking area...i KNOW they are, you have limited your cold blooded animal that needs to thermoregulate to a single temp range that it can use. Do I blame you guys? No...I don't. Caresheets always seem like a good place to start. But the caresheets are wrong. It's been and is being documented over and over again by way too many people for it to be a fluke. I have never had even a single complaint where someone tried it and things didn't get better. If the success rate is anything less than 100% I would be shocked. It's time to rethink and revise the blasted outdated care sheets...ALL of them :) For those of you breeding that might take my advice and try it...please remember that gravid females need to bask at about 90 degrees.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JuliusSqueezer

Pork...still bitter about being banned I see :) Ol Porky here felt a need to answer all the help posts whether he knew what he was talking about or didn't...while it's easy I guess for someone who regurges information and who has no experience of his own to draw from to mistake mineral spirts and mineral oil...advising someone to feed a snake that wasn't even really constipated in the first place, paint thinner was beyond reckless and dangerous and typical of pseudoexperts driveling out advice based on things they read but have no idea what they are talking about. You were told to stop giving advice. You were welcome to chat and stay and learn...but you just had to keep trying to help...so you had to go. One day you will understand why. It's funny because your ban was about to expire and I was going to email you and invite you back with conditions. Suddenly I don't feel the urge anymore.

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Thanks for the off topic flame. I need that for today! I wouldn't want to come back either way, if we didn't agree with the "respected" members oppinions then we were wrong.... How sad and hard headed? Well I feel like hearing a bit more about you journeys down those dirt holes so I'll stop now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JuliusSqueezer

Sorry you feel that way Raz. You seemed like a nice person. We hate to loose you there.

I did not come here to return the favor to JGlass who saw fit to troll our site in a very childish manner, calling names, insulting people etc. No one banned you Mr Glass, You got yourself banned.

Anyway...I'd like to shed a little light on where I'm coming from with these ball python temps.

Ball pythons don't dig heat. They hate it. GO to Africa and find me one ever laying out in the sun. They don't do it. They avoid the heat by going into cool underground burrows whenever possible and coming out at night. If they can't get to a burrow and there is some shade hanging over the water, you might find them cooling off that way if they can find such a spot where they can avoid predation. ANYWAY...

YES! ALL the caresheets say 90s to mid 80s. The reason they all say that is because back in the caveman days of the reptile pettrade, someone wrote that on a caresheet by assuming that if it's hot where they live, it needs to be hot in the cage. Ball pythons can survive quite well in a great variety of conditions so it didn't kill them so it must be right...so the regurgitation began and spread to what it is now. Outdated and wrong.

This very line of thinking btw is what made keeping emeralds alive near impossible until recent years. Dr Henderson finally climbed some trees in South America and recorded the temps and humidity up where the snakes were. While it was in the 90s down on the ground, up in the trees under the shade of the canopy where it was humid and acbreezy cool low 80s...all of a sudden, we can keep emeralds alive. If ball pythons weren't so resiliant and forgiving, we would be having the same issues with them. Climb down a dirt hole and check the temps! Its not in the 90s.

The earth wasn't flat before Christopher Columbus proved it was round. He just showed people that sometimes what we all grow up hearing and accepting...may need a little tweek of reality and updating now and then.

Give it a try. It's not going to kill your ball pythons if they don't have a 94 basking spot for a week. Turn it down to 85 and let the cool side drop into the high 70s. You will notice they still stay on the cool side most of the time but will go bask...thermoregulation is a good thing :) Staying in one spot all the time because they have to avoid being baked is a bad thing. Try it. :) It's not like I've got some plot going to kill everybody's ball pythons. The people that defended my views on this at RTB only did so because I convinced them to try it and what do you know? Their nonfeeding ball pythons are now all worry free and doing great. Why? overheating them kills their gut flora (beneficial bacteria needed to digest food) If that goes and add a little stress..they ain't eating. Once that's all corrected, ball pythons are among the least of worries on feeding day, year around. I haven't had a ball python in my care skip a single meal in YEARS after being kept at proper temps for a couple of weeks.

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Quote:

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Pork...still bitter about being banned I see :) Ol Porky here felt a need to answer all the help posts whether he knew what he was talking about or didn't...while it's easy I guess for someone who regurges information and who has no experience of his own to draw from to mistake mineral spirts and mineral oil...advising someone to feed a snake that wasn't even really constipated in the first place, paint thinner was beyond reckless and dangerous and typical of pseudoexperts driveling out advice based on things they read but have no idea what they are talking about. You were told to stop giving advice. You were welcome to chat and stay and learn...but you just had to keep trying to help...so you had to go. One day you will understand why. It's funny because your ban was about to expire and I was going to email you and invite you back with conditions. Suddenly I don't feel the urge anymore.

Raz...80 for a hot spot is too cool. 4 or 5 degrees makes a huge difference to a cold blooded animal. So it's no shock that your snake is doing better...but be honest. How much time is that snake spending in that 90 degree basking area? Just take some time and moniter and make adjustments till you find a happy medium somewhere where the snake uses more than just the coolest side of the cage and you will have a trouble free pet.

Doesn't anyone else wonder why we have as a community become so accepting that ball pythons "just go off feed" for long stretches? Like it's normal? If set up properly with cooler temps, I promise you, a ball python is as reliable a feeder as any other snake on the planet...even wild caught ones once you get them destressed and dewormed are NO problem.

Try this...does anyone have a really big cage empty...like a 6 footer that they can put an adult ball python in? Set it up with a huge gradient with a 92 degree basking spot on one end, an 85 degree basking spot in the middle and a cool 78 degree cool spot and put plenty of hides and multiple water bowls so that the snake feels secure anywhere it wants to go and let the snake decide. I did this several times over a 2 year period with several ball pythons except I never let anything get over 90....None of them ever bothered with the 90 degree area even for a little while. They seek out the cool spot and hang out there. They bask for a little while in the mid 80s after they eat sometimes but sometimes they didn't even do that. One thing that was consistant though...they ate. Most of them put burms to shame with their feeding reponse. WATCH your snakes! Having a 94 degree hot spot is pointless if they don't go there. If your snake is staying on the cool side all the time...and if you have a 94 degree basking area...i KNOW they are, you have limited your cold blooded animal that needs to thermoregulate to a single temp range that it can use. Do I blame you guys? No...I don't. Caresheets always seem like a good place to start. But the caresheets are wrong. It's been and is being documented over and over again by way too many people for it to be a fluke. I have never had even a single complaint where someone tried it and things didn't get better. If the success rate is anything less than 100% I would be shocked. It's time to rethink and revise the blasted outdated care sheets...ALL of them :) For those of you breeding that might take my advice and try it...please remember that gravid females need to bask at about 90 degrees.

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can you PLEASE keep this on rtb.net? i dont see why you feel the need to call porkchops n gravy bitter and saying that Jamie saw fit to troll your site in a very childish manner, calling names, insulting people etc. we dont need this stuff on this forum.

i relize that everyone has an oppinion but please dont try to push it on us and call our members names.

no arguing/fighting intended by me so peace.