What is 'powerfeeding' exactly?

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

The best I've been able to find is a study conducted at USC that showed a correlation between power feeding and a shortened lifespan in fruit flys

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How in the world would one go about power feeding a fruit fly?! :confused:

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Originally Posted by xdeus

How in the world would one go about power feeding a fruit fly?! :confused:

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Very tiny tongs. ;) :hungry:

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Very tiny tongs. ;) :hungry:

-adam

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LMAO!!

Seriously, though...given the lack of any known empirical evidence on the pros and cons of powerfeeding....shouldn't one allow common sense to guide?

Yes, it's pretty hard to compare fruitflies or mammals to snakes...but I don't think I've ever heard of a single study on any sort of creature at all that said a constant, super-high calorie diet was harmless.

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Originally Posted by xdeus

How in the world would one go about power feeding a fruit fly?! :confused:

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f/t fruit or fresh... (don't want to start another f/t or fresh fruit debate... but I couldn't resist)

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Originally Posted by adam

Very tiny tongs.

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HAHA - love it.

Had a heck of a time trying to feed fruit flies to spiderlings - i wound up just chopping up cricket legs. That's right - just like grandma used to make!


http://biomed.gerontologyjournals.or.../56/suppl_1/20

I'll keep looking - that is a bit dense with a focus on "proton leak" on a cellular level. I know I read somewhere about lifespan, afrocks and cumulative caloric intake. This'll drive me nuts.

Not saying it IS - just saying the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence . . you know . . like a good master debator ;)

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Very tiny tongs. ;) :hungry:

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LOL. Either that or some sort of herbal appetite stimulant. :rolleyes:

Adam_Wysocki no problem ;)

My claims are based purely on my understanding of the animal's biology. In other words, if the animal's system gets rocked by feeding on larger than advisable prey items, it makes sense to conclude that it's immune system will suffer as well. And it is common scientific knowledge that a snakes system does take a jolt when feeding and digesting prey. The systems efforts are of course, directed elsewhere. And there is scientific evidence available that the animal's system does take a serious hit when it eats food that is larger than appropriate.

I will say though that fatty liver is more common in boas then balls, in fact I don't think I've heard of a ball getting fatty liver, but at any rate ...

Also, in terms of snake biology, when it digests its food, a great deal of its fluids get directed to its stomach and digestive tract. Under normal circumstances, this is okay, however, the animal can indeed become weakened and dehydrated if it is digesting two or three large rats it was power fed the day before, rather than if it was fed a normal, appropriately sized meal.

Now, if I am wrong about this stuff definitely let me know, by all means please. I don't mind criticism in the least and I don't ever take that stuff personally; I'm here to learn, just like everybody else is ;)

Smulkin

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Originally Posted by Smulkin

That aside - wouldnt feeding on an acelerated schedule (say every 3 days) be potentially damaging to the digestive systems? Even as opportunistic feeders who in the wild might have to binge when they can get it wouldnt sustaining that intake over long periods be detrimental?

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Absolutely, you are correct. This is because the snake's digestive system has to rest so-to-speak, andby that I mean to say that its gastric acids need to be replenished before it can feed in a healthy manner again. If it continually feeds and feeds and feeds, it wont have enough acid to properly digest its food.

This is why many keepers who power-feed are alarmed when they find whole bones and fun in their snakes stools (per my vet).

Just a couple of quick questions?

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Originally Posted by kenatk

My claims are based purely on my understanding of the animal's biology. In other words, if the animal's system gets rocked by feeding on larger than advisable prey items, it makes sense to conclude that it's immune system will suffer as well.

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So this is more speculation than fact, correct? I can see how someone might come to that conclusion, but you're not privy to any direct evidence that proves this supposition as fact are you? I only ask because I would love to get my hands on it. :D (hint, hint ;) )

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Originally Posted by kenatk

And it is common scientific knowledge that a snakes system does take a jolt when feeding and digesting prey.

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Is it? How much of a "jolt"? I understand how it seems like a logical premise, but unless it can be quantified, it doesn't do much good in an argument. For example, the "jolt" of digesting a meal isn't enough to effect the health of a gravid python when they do choose to eat while carrying eggs.

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Originally Posted by kenatk

And there is scientific evidence available that the animal's system does take a serious hit when it eats food that is larger than appropriate.

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Ahhh .... Perfect! ... Just what I was looking for .... :D:D:D .... Any links or references you that you could provide would be EXTREMELY appreciated! :D

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Originally Posted by kenatk

Also, in terms of snake biology, when it digests its food, a great deal of its fluids get directed to its stomach and digestive tract. Under normal circumstances, this is okay, however, the animal can indeed become weakened and dehydrated if it is digesting two or three large rats it was power fed the day before, rather than if it was fed a normal, appropriately sized meal.

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Again, is there any data to support this idea or is it supposition? I have seen plenty of snakes fed extremely heavily and not dehydrated. Of course, just because I haven't experienced it doesn't make it false, I'm just looking for information related to where these ideas came from that are more tangible than speculation.

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Originally Posted by kenatk

I'm here to learn, just like everybody else is ;)

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Ditto that .... I'm certainly not saying that you're "wrong" ... I really personally have no direct evidence to form an opinion one way or the other. I'm really just trying to sort out what is real (as in based on tangible physical evidence) and what is just speculation based on observations and peoples/keepers attempts at understanding basic snake physiology.

-adam

Adam I'll get as much information as I can together for you, no problem ;) A lot of what I have so far I learned from my vet (she's the only dedicated herp vet in my area), I'll find out where she got her data and see if I may collect some myself for ya.

I'll be in touch.