Are BP morphs the next "dot.bombs"?

Actually which are you saying no one is buying?
The last Lucy that was offered was bought.
The prices on certain types will decline and possibly rise a little then decline more as more are being produced. As the price goes down, more people will want them. More demand for a product will keep the price somewhat higher.
Yes the prices will come down, and you might see a high white pied ball python for $500 in the future. But then something else will be new and hot, some new morph or combo and that will be the high priced ones. I am sure that 5 years ago albinos were not going for $2000.00
Again just my opinion. But I am not saying you will become rich and famous, it is not a sure path to gold and diamonds. But as a business venture you can be succesful.
OTherwise yes it can be a expensive hobby. But then other people have expensive hobbies too. Ours is just cooler! LOL :D
wolfy

bought for a pet? where it will make it's final stop....


or bought to be bred with the idea it is going to make money for someone as bad investment?

yes sure there are a few here and there being sold....but who is making it rich off selling snakes....like 5 places ? the average joe smoe is not going to do it...

put your money in an IRA not a Bp...lol...

I have money and would never in my life buy a 5k snake let alone a 20K one...but that's just me...

take a poll who has a snake with a value of over 5k for a pet....no intention to breed.....

Again. Not talking about today, but the next few years. Once the price goes down the people WILL buy them as pets. Because they are tre cool animals.
The dot.coms took several years to crash and until then people made money.
Depends on when you get in and what you are willing to invest.
It is a endless debate though.

agreed....


but i hate when people say it's a good investment....

Just my $.02, but if you invest enough money it can turn out to be a good investment, from what I have seen the bp market is pretty stable. In my opinion it will probably take a few decades before we see morphs offered at a reasonable price for the average owner who wants a beautiful pet, but waiting SuX0r De|uX0r :rage: :crying:

I think the problem with this discussion is the term "good investment." Anything can be a good investment, IF it pays off in the end. There are any number of things that can be "good investments" for one person, and a terrible investment for another.


For instance...JoeBob can pay $2500 for a beat-up, rusted out old classic Caddy, and then spend the next 3-5 years laboring over and adoring his car...searching out and finding all original stock parts...spending thousands of dollars on those parts...eventually restoring the car to its original splendor. And turn around and sell it for many, many times the amount he put into it. Is there a huge market for mint-condition old caddies? No. Personally, I don't know a single, solitary soul who has one...nor anyone who would spend that kind of outrageous money to buy one, even if they could. BUT...that doesn't mean there aren't plenty of people out there who WOULD pay that kind of money for the beauty that JoeBob invested in.

Now...if I bought that same $2500 old piece of junk...could I turn it into a $50,000 car? No. It would likely sit in the yard and continue to rust. I would KNOW that the investment potential is very good...I would have all the good intentions in the world of restoring that car. But my temperment, my interests, and my knowledge about cars would doom me from the start. Sure, I could LEARN more about them and how to restore....but even knowing that doesn't suddenly turn me into a back-yard mechanic who adores getting all greasy and grimey for the sake of a beautiful car. BAD investment for me!

Is the Ball Python market a sure-thing investment? Heck no. And I don't think there's a single soul who understands the market that would tell you it is. There is risk involved in virtually all investments.....and probably especially so with live animals. You not only risk the possibility that the market will "crash" and you can't make back what you bought into it with....but you risk any number of disasters that can kill off your investment stock and all the years you've put into growing them up.

The potential for the Ball Python market to stay strong looks very good to me. Is it a "good investment" for anyone who thinks snakes are "cool"? Heck no. I think old Caddies are awesome, too. But for the right people with the right passion mixed with the right business savvy and the right knowledge.....it's well worth the risk.

This is so simple to me being an economist. This is a very incestuous business. It is simply breeders (or wanna be breeders) who are keeping the prices high because they are the ones shelling out 10k for a snake. The breeders are supporting the other breeders with cash and trade. Just look at who is buying. This market will only crash when it is flooded.


I just bought a pastel. In looking for this I was looking everywhere to get the brightest snake for the cheapest price. Just showing interest in some snakes would bring down the price a few hundred dollars. Which is a large % of the total price. The big bucks will be made by the first guy able supply cool morphs at a realistic price. Normal people will not pay as much for a snake as they paid for there car, motorcycle, boat, etc. Until then, it will be breeder supporting breeders.

For a quick reference, look at Wal-Mart. They are one of the highest grossing companies in the world.....they sell a lot for cheap....its all about how much you sell. Look at car dealerships, a salesman may sell one S500 for 100k in Jan, if he doesn't sell again till March he will loose his job. Products need to turnover to profit.

*All statements are from a business or economic point of view. Nothing stated should be taken personally as I do not know anyone here personally. ;)

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Are BP morphs the next "dot.bombs"?

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That’s a great question … and my answer is “I sure hope so!”.

As someone that was intimately involved with the “dot com” craze of the late nineties, there are certainly a lot of similarities. People wanted in on a “money maker” and they threw money into starting internet companies just for the sake of “being a player”. There were scammers, get rich quick people, and people that just didn’t have any business running a company being given tens of millions of dollars in venture capital because they had a snappy power point presentation. In the end, the large majority of them failed. Not because the market wouldn’t support them, but because they just had no idea of how to run a business. When the dust cleared from the great “dot com” crash, there were and still are many successful internet companies standing that most people thought never had a chance; Amazon.com, Buy.com, MyWay.com, and the list goes on and on. There have also been new companies started since then like Google.com and MySpace.com. There are also many little known companies that have a thriving internet presence and are making good money. A close friend of mine makes $40,000.00 a year running a “brain teaser” puzzle site. The difference between the companies that survived and the companies that failed had absolutely nothing to do with “the market” and everything to do with knowing how to run a business. ANY BUSINESS (whether a dot com, bricks and mortar store, or ball python breeding operation) that does not have a solid business plan and that doesn’t understand things like marketing, advertising, sales, fiscal discipline, and everything else that traditionally goes along with running a business will sooner or later fail.

Just because you have a hundred, or a thousand, or ten thousand dollars to throw at a breeder for an investment morph does not mean that you are going to make a million dollars breeding ball pythons. Running a business is hard work that takes a certain amount of skill and dedication that many people just don’t have. Maintaining a large breeding colony of any reptile, let alone ball pythons, also takes a very high level of skill and dedication that most people can’t imagine. Just like the frenzied dot coms of the late 90’s, the fly by nighters in the ball python world will eventually fail. People that don’t want to do the work of running a business and only want to cash in on the big money being spent on morphs will eventually find it more and more difficult to operate in an over crowded market and they will move on to the next “hot thing” whether it be rainbow boas, ipod accessories, or jelly flavored cell phones. When the smoke clears, the people that are passionate, dedicated, professional, and actually want to run a business like a business will remain and we’ll all be better for it.

Just like the way the internet exists today, there will be room for ball python breeders on all levels to make as much or as little money as they would like- depending on the amount of hard and dedication that they want to put in. Similar to the way Google jumped on the internet scene and dominated everything they touched, there will be new breeders that rise up quickly and dominate the market. Alternatively, there will also be breeders like my friend with his “brain teaser” internet site that works a few hours a week and makes his 40K a year “on the side” and is perfectly happy with where his business is.

This cycle is nothing new … it happens over and over again in all kinds of business … as pointed out, it’s happened with internet companies, it’s also happened in the desktop computer market, it’s happened in the exotic bird market, the sports memorabilia market, and I am sure dozens more that I can’t just spit out off of the top of my head.

As far as ball pythons as an investment, I’m sorry but as someone that is actively invested in the stock market, bonds, and commodities I can tell you with great confidence that there is no better investment on the planet right now than ball pythons. On my initial $5,000.00 investment into ball pythons in 1996, I’ve managed a return of better than 5000%. That would be like a $150,000.00 house being sold for $7.5 million in 10 years. There is no IRA, stock, bond, or real estate investment that can give you a return like that.

If you’re going to invest in and breed ball pythons, then you’re running a business … act like it! Have a plan, research business practices, marketing, sales tactics, BE A BUSINESS PERSON …

… or, go up in smoke like the dot bombs.

-adam

there are some people with alot of money to spare that can have what they want. i was working at a guy's house today and he had a ferrari in the garage! if this guy was into herps, i'm sure he could have what he wanted/liked. alot of guys are into cars/boats/etc. and have alot of money invested. just depends on what you like!


vaughn

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Originally Posted by gamebred26

Yes but in the end there has to be a market for people buying these as pets....

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Why's that?

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Originally Posted by gamebred26

and I don't know one person who has a 10k snake let alone anything more then that...maybe a pastel...but I don't know anyone who has a lesser plat..clown...peid ....

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I know a few... some of them post on here quite regularly as a matter of fact. I actually know a guy who invested 45k in a snake... poor schmuck only got about a 400% return on his investment in the first six months he owned the animal.... and something tells me, his investment will still be paying off for quite some time to come...

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Originally Posted by gamebred26

yes breeders trade etc...but who is dumping cash for these snakes for pet purposes...with no intention to buy and breed to earn $$$ themselves...

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What makes you think that it all revolves around pure pets? There are plenty of people that buy quality dog breeds for quite a bit of money to just be family protectors, etc.. They have NO intention of breeding when they purchase the puppy... but somewhere down the road, quite a few people whelp a litter, and far be it from me, or you, or anyone else to tell them they can't sell the offspring and make a little dough in the process... or RECOVER some dough...(more like it).

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Originally Posted by gamebred26

It's just like baseball cards they ain't worth **** unless someone is willing to pay cash...
here is a test got try and trade your Lucy ball in for a 911...see what they say to you....

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I think if someone had a 911 that was worth only 70 or 80k, and I offered them a lucy for it... I think they'd jump at the chance. Its like you've clearly stated...

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Originally Posted by gamebred26

the value that people are putting these animals is insane....

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All it takes is a few people to actually SET a value, and sell an animal at that price... then it seems that the public is actually setting the value....

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Originally Posted by gamebred26

people are saying these are a good investment....not even close....

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Really? Crap! There are quite a few owners/hobbyists and breeders out there that will be crushed to hear that. You go ahead and keep sticking your money in your IRA that might earn you 5 or 6% a year, and when you're 80, you may be able to retire, and draw a little less than you currently make in order to pay for your Depends, and Ensure and in the mean time, there'll be others out there trying to better their life for themselves and their families and be able to actually spend some time later in their life enjoying it.

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Originally Posted by gamebred26

plus no body is buying them anyway...

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I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this... where are all these animals going then? I see adds on Kingsnake every day... I see available pages on websites with "SOLD" notices next to them... I talk to breeders that are getting packages ready to ship out.. and more importantly, I have animals WAITING to be shipped to me right now that have already been paid for. The only Lucy's that have ever been "offered" or "put up for sale" to my knowledge have been snatched up fairly quickly.. or WOULD be. What makes Bumblebee prices hover around 20-25k? Just so they can hold on to them and not wind up selling a single animal?? I don't get your point here at all.

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Originally Posted by gamebred26

if you are looking at this for a return you are kidding yourself....it's an expensive hobbby nothing more....

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I can think of some expensive hobbies that you'll NEVER see a dime from... a few of which I'm a big part of... Golf, Flying, collecting worthless trinkets and such..... But I'll tell you this... if one of my pastels breeds successfully for only 5 years, I will make a substantial return on my initial investment... not to mention have a fun expensive hobby that will wind up paying for itself. I can't play golf for free... or buy additional golf clubs for free... or put gas in a plane that I rent to go flying for free.... but if I had a commercial license, and I had some friends that wanted to go to Vegas, and I could charge them some money to do that, I could make up the cost of the plane, fuel, oil, maint, etc.. and maybe make enough to buy a sandwich when I got there.

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Originally Posted by gamebred26

but i hate when people say it's a good investment....

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Don't know of another one that has the potential for returns like I have seen and heard about.... Lets just take my normal females for example.. I bought them for $350 shipped to my door... 10 animals... $35 a piece. Do you think the very next day after I got them, that I couldn't put them up for $50 a piece, and sell 7 of them to make my money back? And what about if I hold on to them for about a year. Take a look on kingsnake to see what 1000g females are worth/going for.... Sounds like a pretty good investment to me.

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Originally Posted by bigboyslims

This is so simple to me being an economist. This is a very incestuous business. It is simply breeders (or wanna be breeders) who are keeping the prices high because they are the ones shelling out 10k for a snake. The breeders are supporting the other breeders with cash and trade. Just look at who is buying.

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This is what is frustrating me so badly... WHO CARES who's buying it... SOMEONE is... that's all that any business cares about. They're producing a product, SOMEONE is paying for it... does it really matter if it's not the guy down the street? Or is it acceptable that it could be someone on the other side of the world?

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Originally Posted by bigboyslims

Until then, it will be breeder supporting breeders.

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According to gamebred26, anyone who buys a morph is a breeder even if they "think" about breeding any time in the future... so this makes sense to me... Breeders support breeders... software guys support hardware guys... businesses support customers... seems pretty logical..

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Originally Posted by bigboyslims

For a quick reference, look at Wal-Mart. They are one of the highest grossing companies in the world.....they sell a lot for cheap....its all about how much you sell

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Okay.. now lets look at Petco... they buy Ball Pythons from importers for (???) probably around $15 a piece... then they turn around and sell them for $79 a piece... They get shipments in every Tuesday... and they always get new BP's... seems like they're moving them just fine...

Then lets look at RDR... he has over 1000 BP's in his collection... He produced 125 clutches in 2005.... (that the general public knows about)... a few clutches went bad... a few had smaller output than others... but lets just average 4 eggs a piece... that's 500 babies... Take a look at his available page... how many animals do you see for an AVERAGE price of WHAT?

The idea that the market will some day lose some of it's luster, or current value is a given... but the idea that something new will come along.. a new morph will be imported and reproduced, and lots of time spent doing research and growing projects will still be thriving for many years to come.

As Adam said... you're DANG right I hope this has the POWER of the dot.bomb era.... I was IN and WORKING IN the heart of the valley during that era... and the power was NUTS... the money was NUTS... and everyone wanted a piece... if that happens (on a much, much smaller scale) here, there's no one that wouldn't stand to benefit from it!