Convict Ball Python

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Originally Posted by JLC

but I don't see any evidence of someone who is able to aquire and prove out brand new morphs.

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What exactly would "evidence of someone who is able to aquire and prove out brand new morphs" look like?

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

What exactly would "evidence of someone who is able to aquire and prove out brand new morphs" look like?

-adam

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When you say it like that, I realize that came out sounding quite uppity and snooty. LOL My apologies. I think I've been spending too much time at sites like RDR or NERD where they have detailed information about breeding projects and stories about where various new snakes came from and things like that.

I know everyone has to start somewhere in the business if they want to sell high-end morphs. No one wakes up as Ralph Davis one day. (For which I'm sure he's eternally grateful! :P ) I just believe that if you want to ask for a great deal of money for a snake, you should attempt to build as much credibility for yourself as possible, which might include online/website documentation and pictures.

OK, the snake does not look black and white to me at all!

Will be interesting to find out how this plays out.

OK. First impression - I am almost convinced that this gentleman is not sure what this boid is. He seemed to quick with the responses and would shoot off topic (sometimes) during our talk.

me - Hi, I was looking around for a morph ball and saw your ad on the web. Can you send me some pics of this snake please?

Sir - Yeah, yeah but I will tell you she is hard to take pics of!

me - Hmm, She won't stay still or the pic won't come out right?

sir - She is just so hard to describe. She is black and white, you know, almost looking like a mojave or a lesser platty.

me - Hmm, OK? Well here is my email addy, please feel free to send them for my review, the more the merrier.

sir- Sure thing, I'll get on that in a bit.

It's been my experience to always give someone the benefit of the doubt the first time. I'll post the additional pics when they arrive and let you folks be the judge. ;)

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Originally Posted by JLC

I just believe that if you want to ask for a great deal of money for a snake, you should attempt to build as much credibility for yourself as possible, which might include online/website documentation and pictures.

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Some of the most expensive ball pythons that have ever been bought or sold were owned/bought/brokered by people that don't have websites.

The kingsnake classified is only a small piece of the big picture.

There are BIG BIG players out there with extremely high end collections that most people have never heard of and probably never will. There are many breeders/brokers that have (or lack depending on how you look at it) credibility that don't own websites, post ads on kinsnake, or have email addresses, but they move some of the most high end morphs on the planet.

Just because a name pops up that doesn't sound familiar doesn't mean that person hasn't been around the biz for many years.

The "behind the scenes" of the ball python industry is another world entirely. ;)

-adam

There are lots of animals posted all the time on the classifieds that say "could be this" or "might be that" ... it's nothing new ... some of them go for big dollars, some of them not so big .... It's usually the same handful of people posting them week after week.

This is really nothing new and just part of the business.

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Some of the most expensive ball pythons that have ever been bought or sold were owned/bought/brokered by people that don't have websites.

The kingsnake classified is only a small piece of the big picture.

There are BIG BIG players out there with extremely high end collections that most people have never heard of and probably never will. There are many breeders/brokers that have (or lack depending on how you look at it) credibility that don't own websites, post ads on kinsnake, or have email addresses, but they move some of the most high end morphs on the planet.

Just because a name pops up that doesn't sound familiar doesn't mean that person hasn't been around the biz for many years.

The "behind the scenes" of the ball python industry is another world entirely. ;)

-adam

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It's quite true that I've only seen a tiny slice of the high-end bp world. (Would LOVE to see more!)

What I'm saying here is not meant to judge or criticize the snake or dealer that this thread is about. I picture myself getting into this business someday and in so doing, I will make use of every tool available to ensure potential customers that they can count on me to understand what I'm talking about, that I take good care of the animals, and that I will deal with them with 100% honesty and integrity.

Coming from my limited experience, it seems that a well documented website is one of the best tools for that. Word-of-mouth and a good reputation would bolster that, of course. But how does that sort of reputation begin without some sort of exposure to the customer base? And how do you reach the customer base of high-dollar snakes without an Internet presence? (That's a genuine question seeking enlightenment...not an argumentative point!) How does one break into this "behind the scenes" world of ball python breeding?

As for the snake in the picture on the ad....I simply don't see what the seller is trying to point out. But maybe someone does and maybe someone will think it's worth the risk.

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Originally Posted by JLC

And how do you reach the customer base of high-dollar snakes without an Internet presence?

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You make yourself know to the people that actually have the money to spend ... if you're selling $50,000.00 - $120,000.00 animals, having a website and posting on Kingsnake is pointless ... the people with that kind of money to spend could not care less.

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Originally Posted by JLC

But maybe someone does and maybe someone will think it's worth the risk.

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And if they do, more power to them. Lots of "subtle" morphs have proved out to be KILLERS down the road ... I used to crinkle my nose everytime I heard someone say the word "Spotnose" ... I learned my lesson and will NEVER do that again. Only one thing is for certain ... "unless you KNOW, you have NO idea". ;)

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

You make yourself know to the people that actually have the money to spend ... if you're selling $50,000.00 - $120,000.00 animals, having a website and posting on Kingsnake is pointless ... the people with that kind of money to spend could not care less.

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Now there's an excellent point that I hadn't ever given much thought to!

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

And if they do, more power to them. Lots of "subtle" morphs have proved out to be KILLERS down the road ... I used to crinkle my nose everytime I heard someone say the word "Spotnose" ... I learned my lesson and will NEVER do that again. Only one thing is for certain ... "unless you KNOW, you have NO idea". ;)

-adam

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LOL....I just first heard of spot noses yesterday and at first thought it seemed awfully silly! And I felt the same way about yellow-bellies for a long time, too. Couldn't figure out what was SO special about them. (I know better now!) It seems like the ability to tell "special" from "normal" in some ball pythons is akin to being able to tell what year and what field the grapes were grown in for a particular wine just by tasting. :)

I'm glad we had this discussion. It's really helped me to see things in a different way.

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Originally Posted by JLC

It seems like the ability to tell "special" from "normal" in some ball pythons is akin to being able to tell what year and what field the grapes were grown in for a particular wine just by tasting. :)

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Experience. The PROS always know. ;)

-adam