75 deg. good for a cool spot??

Don't think that I don't want my animals to be healthy and am not willing to do what it takes to keep them healthy. I merely am questioning whether it is advisable to treat every BP as though it were on an assembly line. Heck, even NERD's care sheet says it is ok to go down to 78 and they are one of the top breeders in the world. I am merely questioning the BP.net mantra of 82-84 and 92-94.

Also, if you think that human sexuality, or any other species' sexuality is not instinctual, does not spring from external stimuli and does not first arise in the hypothalomus, then you need to do some research on neurology. The same basic neurological design that snakes have, we have as well because we both originate from a common ancestor some 250 million years ago. We just have a whole host of other neurological cells floating around up there. But the same basic design exists.

As for feeding reponses, you may have something there. I have noticed that the more time he spends in the sub 80 spot, he does tend to eat less. Like he did not eat for me last time.

Adam, I know that you have had great success with your snakes and breeding, but I wonder if you and some of the others here have different goals in keeping snakes than I do. I want to have a pet that will live for several decades with whom I can share my life. You seem to want to merely breed these animals. I don't believe I have ever heard you say anything about how much you enjoy interacting with your snakes or any funny stories about what they do. I know that this is probably because you have so many, but that is precisely why I think you and the other breeders have different goals in mind from those of us who view our snakes as members of our families, as so many of us view our dogs and cats.

I merely want to have a healthy snake, both physically and psychologically. I want to explore every ounce of his being and I want him to do the same with me. A breeder seems to want the most robust snake for breeding. I wonder if these different goals leads to different experiences and desires in both the snakes and owners and as a result of these differing goals, whether different methods are desirable?

Rachel

as far as the 75 deg. cool spot, here's my view, last year my room went down into 70's and one of my snakes got RI. this was not a good thing, it was stressful for me and the snake, you could easily buy a nice helix for the cost of treatment. the stress is not fun, giving shots,quarantine, follow up visits, not fun! after going through that i don't see any reason to risk getting it. 80 deg and up is a good base temp to keep. one thing to keep in mind is that most of the thermometers we use have an accuracy of 2-3 deg. +/-!
your thermometer could read 75 and it really be 72 deg. my main point is, i don't see a good reason to risk it!


vaughn

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RWillinnable

Adam, I know that you have had great success with your snakes and breeding, but I wonder if you and some of the others here have different goals in keeping snakes than I do. I want to have a pet that will live for several decades with whom I can share my life. You seem to want to merely breed these animals. I don't believe I have ever heard you say anything about how much you enjoy interacting with your snakes or any funny stories about what they do. I know that this is probably because you have so many, but that is precisely why I think you and the other breeders have different goals in mind from those of us who view our snakes as members of our families, as so many of us view our dogs and cats.

I merely want to have a healthy snake, both physically and psychologically. I want to explore every ounce of his being and I want him to do the same with me. A breeder seems to want the most robust snake for breeding. I wonder if these different goals leads to different experiences and desires in both the snakes and owners and as a result of these differing goals, whether different methods are desirable?

Rachel

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I've been to Adam's shop. I can't even begin to describe the passion that man has for his snakes. It is NOT a job for him. Every animal is important, no matter it's breeding importance. He is fanatical about these snakes, and goes WAY above and beyond to help out newbies to provide the best possible situation for everyone.

Anyway, there's my thoughts. :D

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Originally Posted by RWillinnable

I am merely questioning the BP.net mantra of 82-84 and 92-94.

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No one is putting a gun to your head. Keep your ball pythons at whatever temperatures you want ... in the end, they are your ball pythons ... I'm just sharing what works for me. If you don't agree, or don't like it ... ignore it.

And if you'd like to check out NERDs owner Kevin McCurleys book "The Complete Ball Python" … nothing he says contradicts the 82-84, 92-94 "mantra". The thing you have to realize is that there is a difference between an acceptable temperature range for people that can't do any better and providing temps that will allow your ball python to thrive.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RWillinnable

Also, if you think that human sexuality, or any other species' sexuality is not instinctual, does not spring from external stimuli and does not first arise in the hypothalomus, then you need to do some research on neurology. The same basic neurological design that snakes have, we have as well because we both originate from a common ancestor some 250 million years ago. We just have a whole host of other neurological cells floating around up there. But the same basic design exists.

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Again, I have no idea how you can compare the brain function and instinct of a human to a ball python. We may have started out with the same basic design, but evolution has made us VERY different organisms. This comparison is just not good science in any way.

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Originally Posted by RWillinnable

As for feeding reponses, you may have something there. I have noticed that the more time he spends in the sub 80 spot, he does tend to eat less. Like he did not eat for me last time.

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I may huh? Imagine that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RWillinnable

Adam, I know that you have had great success with your snakes and breeding, but I wonder if you and some of the others here have different goals in keeping snakes than I do. I want to have a pet that will live for several decades with whom I can share my life. You seem to want to merely breed these animals. I don't believe I have ever heard you say anything about how much you enjoy interacting with your snakes or any funny stories about what they do. I know that this is probably because you have so many, but that is precisely why I think you and the other breeders have different goals in mind from those of us who view our snakes as members of our families, as so many of us view our dogs and cats.

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You have NO IDEA what you are talking about. Ball pythons are my life, they consume every aspect of what I do. I wake up thinking about ball pythons, I think about ball pythons while I grocery shop, I think about ball pythons when I’m on the can, and I go to bed thinking about ball pythons. Just because I'm not all touchy feely foo foo on the message boards doesn't mean that I don't bleed passion for these animals ... I come here to share my knowledge and give back to a community that has given me sooo much ... I own two very successful business and work about 120 hours a week plus I'm a single parent raising a 4 year old ... The time I have to spend here just answering questions is very valuable to me and I do all that I can just to help ... I don't have the time or the desire to share "funny stories" about my snakes ... If you take note, for the most part I don't participate in happy birthday threads, here's what I look like threads, or what's your favorite cupcake threads, not because I don't want to, but because I really don't have the time .... If it makes you feel better, in addition to the 250+ snakes that I have at my breeding facility in Freedom Breeder racks, here at home, my son has 8 ball pythons in his room in 20 gallon tanks, we also have hermit crabs, fish, and geckos ... they all have names and I have tons of "funny stories" that I could share if only I had the time. If you can't tell, I'm just a little insulted by your insinuation ... I'm doing all I can here to help people to the best of my ability and I get called out for not sharing "funny stories" ... give me a break.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RWillinnable

I merely want to have a healthy snake, both physically and psychologically. I want to explore every ounce of his being and I want him to do the same with me. A breeder seems to want the most robust snake for breeding. I wonder if these different goals leads to different experiences and desires in both the snakes and owners and as a result of these differing goals, whether different methods are desirable?

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A snake will not breed if it's not healthy, both physically AND psychologically ... you can't force them to lock up ... you induce breeding by providing them with the BEST possible environment ... breeding or not, our goals are the same ... It saddens me that you would think otherwise.

If you think that I don’t know what I’m talking about, that’s fine … I’m not asking you to drink the magic punch, I’m not asking you for anything … I’m just trying to help people the way that so many breeders and experts in the field of herpetology helped me over the last 25 years.

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

and work about 120 hours a week
-adam

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Geez, is THAT all? :rolleyes:

Quit 'yer whining! LOL

Seriously though, how DO you find time to come here and answer questions, talk on the phone answering even more questions, and find time to send pictures to people who bug you to death wanting to know when they're going to get them? (I resemble that last one! LOL).

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Seriously though, how DO you find time to come here and answer questions, talk on the phone answering even more questions

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I multi-task very well ... but don't worry, I usually remember to wait and flush after I hang up the phone. ;)

( had to be done, had to :P )

-adam

BTW - Pictures tonight! ... Late!

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

I multi-task very well ... but don't worry, I usually remember to wait and flush after I hang up the phone. ;)

( had to be done, had to :P )

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OK, TMI, but I BELIEVE that I've actually done that to you! LOL

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

BTW - Pictures tonight! ... Late!

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Oh Karl will be so relieved! I won't have to check my e-mail every five minutes! LOL

I am sorry Adam. I appreciate your guidance. I was trying to create dialogue, but the post came off sounding way too harsh and I am sorry for that. Thanks for all the great advise that you give and truth is that I will be buying a black light with greater voltage so that I can raise Shahrazad's temps to 82 degrees.

You and I may have different motives in keeping our snakes and we may never completely understand the other's, as I am sure that the original Adam did not understand Eve's attraction to her first snake experience, I don't think that I can explain mine. But I will do what I can to make sure he is healthy and if that means raising his temps, then I will do it.

Thanks for all your help. :)

Rachel

sorry i must... but u mentioned the whole evolution thing earlier and now ur talking about adam and eve...

If she's bringing up adam and eve, chances are that she has NO IDEA what adam w. was talking about when it comes to the evolution issue between humans and ball pythons, and further explains the reason for the ignorant comparison between the two species.

Sorry, I just had to jump in here, and say how out of line it is to question the motives of somewho who is outwardly so passionate about the species. Maybe the reason why he doesn't have so many "funny stories" is because he completely understands the behavior of these animals as a result of experience. Example: "oh, this one time my snake was in his waterbowl for 3 days with just his nose popping out, it was so cute!" the person who says that has no clue that this behavior exhibits some type of issue that is going on with the snake.

I'm kind of offended for you, Adam, and I give you props for taking that so well. I may not have been as civil.....

Brad
Member #1435 of the BP.net Adam Defender Club