Can Bioactive Setups be Successful with Fake Plants?

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Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

...Keep in mind that isopods cannot legally or with any degree of environmental responsibility be released anywhere in the US without a permit (which USDA is unlikely to issue; isopods are invasive), so using them complicates substrate disposal (you can't compost it, for example). Freezing or fully drying the substrate, then double bagging and putting in the trash, is generally thought acceptable.

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Originally Posted by plateOfFlan

This is a good note about the pods I wasn't aware of, thanks!

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See, I wasn't either- I've never seriously considered bio-active enclosures, but I never realized these "little critters" weren't native & that they're invasive, etc.

Some species are native, many are introduced and naturalized. Many more are not naturalized and not listed on the 'approved' list of isopods that USDA gives out easy permits for (I'm permitted for shipment to many states, though not to FL since their requirements are quite a bit more stringent). Here's the 'approved' list that is relatively straightforward to get permits for:

Armadillidium klugii
Armadillidium maculatum
Armadillidium nasatum
Armadillidium vulgare
Atlantoscia floridiana
Cylisticus convexus
Cubaris murina
Oniscus asellus
Porcellio dilatatus
Porcellio laevis
Porcellio scaber
Porcellio spinicornis
Porcellionides floria
Porcellionides pruinosus
Porcellionides virgatus
Rhyscotus texensis
Trachelipus rathkii
Trichoniscus pusillus
Trichorina tomentosa
Venezillo parvus

Others may be issued permits, but they're likely to require inspected containment facilities (which I don't have).

On a similar note, all the non-native mantids currently in vogue are being traded illegally. I checked with the USDA permit person to confirm this.

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Originally Posted by plateOfFlan

Yeah somewhere along the way the term "bioactive" seems to get confused for "add cleanup crew and never clean the enclosure", the whole cycle isn't going to work unless you have all the elements there. Without plant material (particularly decomposing plant material) and fungus, the isopods won't have anything to eat, and the issue with snake waste has already been mentioned. Isopods and springtails also breathe through gills, so they need to be kept in quite damp substrate to survive - if it dries out they'll all die.

eta: without plants and other rotting material you'd need to be feeding the isopods, and they prefer to ignore things like apples and carrots until they're actively decomposing, which would mean the snake is in there hanging out with rotting food. My isopod-only enclosure is honestly pretty gross, I wouldn't want to expose other critters to it.

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Couldn't I purchase dead leaves online for the isopods? I figured this was necessary even with live plants. What other rotting material do people use in bioactive BP enclosures?

Also, the Terra Firma substrate says it's supposed to stay dry on the top and moist on the middle and bottom layers. Surely the crew would be able to breathe then?

What would be the implications of using artificial plants as opposed to live ones?

To be clear, I'm not totally unwilling to get some live plants. I'm just not a plant person.

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Originally Posted by BonnieBallPython

What other rotting material do people use in bioactive BP enclosures?

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i think you'll find everything you need under the "biodegradeables" section on the biodude's website (although you could find this stuff anywhere)- stuff like sphagnum moss, bark pieces, and seed pods will all be broken down over time by isopods. i always find my isopods flocking under cork bark. :)

https://www.thebiodude.com/collectio...le-leaf-litter
https://www.thebiodude.com/collections/seed-nut-pods

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Originally Posted by blisterbeetle

i think you'll find everything you need under the "biodegradeables" section on the biodude's website (although you could find this stuff anywhere)- stuff like sphagnum moss, bark pieces, and seed pods will all be broken down over time by isopods. i always find my isopods flocking under cork bark. :)

https://www.thebiodude.com/collectio...le-leaf-litter
https://www.thebiodude.com/collections/seed-nut-pods

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I currently have some dead leaves, sphag moss, and seed pods sitting in a box already. Good to know I got that part right. The link is helpful too, thanks!

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Originally Posted by plateOfFlan

Yeah somewhere along the way the term "bioactive" seems to get confused for "add cleanup crew and never clean the enclosure", the whole cycle isn't going to work unless you have all the elements there. Without plant material (particularly decomposing plant material) and fungus, the isopods won't have anything to eat, and the issue with snake waste has already been mentioned. Isopods and springtails also breathe through gills, so they need to be kept in quite damp substrate to survive - if it dries out they'll all die.

eta: without plants and other rotting material you'd need to be feeding the isopods, and they prefer to ignore things like apples and carrots until they're actively decomposing, which would mean the snake is in there hanging out with rotting food. My isopod-only enclosure is honestly pretty gross, I wouldn't want to expose other critters to it.

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Originally Posted by BonnieBallPython

Couldn't I purchase dead leaves online for the isopods? I figured this was necessary even with live plants. What other rotting material do people use in bioactive BP enclosures?

Also, the Terra Firma substrate says it's supposed to stay dry on the top and moist on the middle and bottom layers. Surely the crew would be able to breathe then?

What would be the implications of using artificial plants as opposed to live ones?

To be clear, I'm not totally unwilling to get some live plants. I'm just not a plant person.

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Another thought: could I stick some bamboo stocks in the soil to substitute live plants? In addition to the other biodegradables like dead leaves etc.

Thanks for your previous responses, by the way.

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Originally Posted by BonnieBallPython

Another thought: could I stick some bamboo stocks in the soil to substitute live plants? In addition to the other biodegradables like dead leaves etc.

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you could use bamboo stocks as another biodegradable, but i wouldn't use them as a replacement for live plants. if you do end up going the bioactive route, i'd make sure to get the hardiest and sturdiest plants you can- ball pythons are heavy and will bulldoze plants. you could also use a mix of live and fake plants. it's also necessary to let your plants establish (root) for at least a month or so before adding any inhabitants (other than your isopods/springtails) so they won't be uprooted immediately.

the chances are until you have an established population of isopods and springtails you will have to clean up your snake's feces.

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Originally Posted by BonnieBallPython

Another thought: could I stick some bamboo stocks in the soil to substitute live plants?...

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Might want to use bamboo sticks to surround, support & protect any live plants? As noted by blisterbeetle, BPs & many other snakes are good at bulldozing them. :snake:

It is worth mentioning that many people (including me) keep isopods as decorative animals in their own enclosure. This can be as simple as a 6qt plastic box, a clear Critter Keeper (I use both of these), a small fish tank or ExoTerra, or some sort of repurposed decorative glass vessel. They're a lot of fun to keep this way, and it would eliminate both the routine disposal worry/hassles and modifications of another animal's enclosure for the purposes of what is looking to be pretty close to cohabitation.

Just a thought.