Brown spots on ball python's tail?

FYI: public employees talk to each other. Your call to animal control (even if it were morally permissible to violate the trust someone places in you to care for their animal) will not be anonymous (IP, email, phone number). This is not worth ruining your academic career over. For pete's sake, people -- be careful what you recommend to minors.

Also, since you're talking very critically about the situation here, I think directing him here would be a very bad idea from a reasonable self-interest POV.

On animal control: where I live (Wisconsin) the state humane society thinks ball pythons should live in fish tanks with heat lamps:

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...n-brown-county

It is a bit odd that though this situation is so terrible that you thought it prudent to get involved more deeply with it. Also, I'm a bit skeptical of the owl mention. Unless I'm mistaken, all native owls are protected in the US (I take it you're in the US -- your language strongly indicates you are). Which species of owl is this?

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Originally Posted by aspen_opossum

...When I get my own snakes I will feed them frozen thawed....

I did confront him about the lack of heating a few months ago, but he said it was warm enough in the school for them (maybe for them not to die, but it is definitely not warm enough!!) and its hard to convince a teacher they're wrong, especially in the middle of class. He also keeps corn snakes, a king snake, and a bull snake in very similar cages. He says he got the cages 30 years ago and the company is now out of business, so he doesn't want them to melt.

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Re your plans to feed your own snakes "f/t" in the future- :gj: :clap::gj: :clap::gj: Also for getting involved, to advocate for these unfortunate animals that cannot speak for themselves- Thank you!

If he got these (Neodesha) cages 30 years ago, that tells me that he's been at this a long time, apparently hasn't learned new things, & is very set in his ways. :( (It sure reminds me of that nature museum I had to deal with.) If his cages are so old they're now a hazard or otherwise unsuitable, then he needs to upgrade & provide enclosures that CAN be heated. That's a lame excuse. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

FYI: public employees talk to each other. Your call to animal control (even if it were morally permissible to violate the trust someone places in you to care for their animal) will not be anonymous (IP, email, phone number). This is not worth ruining your academic career over. For pete's sake, people -- be careful what you recommend to minors.

Also, since you're talking very critically about the situation here, I think directing him here would be a very bad idea from a reasonable self-interest POV.

On animal control: where I live (Wisconsin) the state humane society thinks ball pythons should live in fish tanks with heat lamps:

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...n-brown-county

It is a bit odd that though this situation is so terrible that you thought it prudent to get involved more deeply with it. Also, I'm a bit skeptical of the owl mention. Unless I'm mistaken, all native owls are protected in the US (I take it you're in the US -- your language strongly indicates you are). Which species of owl is this?

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Which is why I suggested the OP get some adults involved- not take this on directly.

You have a very good point though about NOT directing him here at this point- (that was my initial thought, before more was posted). I'll revise that, thanks, and yes, I know many humane societies are well-behind the times.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Which is why I suggested the OP get some adults involved- not take this on directly.

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Well, this will have the same outcome unless the complainant is extraordinarily good at reading all the facets of the situation and the loyalties of all the people involved, which takes an impressive set of social skills.

I think there is a lot more going on in this situation than we've been given here. That such a situation (deformed animals, a maladjusted bird of prey) would exist in a school room strains belief just a bit.

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Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

Well, this will have the same outcome unless the complainant is extraordinarily good at reading all the facets of the situation and the loyalties of all the people involved, which takes an impressive set of social skills.

I think there is a lot more going on in this situation than we've been given here. That such a situation (deformed animals, a maladjusted bird of prey) would exist in a school room strains belief just a bit.

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I'm not picturing all these in a classroom either, but maybe his private residence? Yes, we could use some more info. ;) (And maybe it's a private school too, who knows?)

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Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

FYI: public employees talk to each other. Your call to animal control (even if it were morally permissible to violate the trust someone places in you to care for their animal) will not be anonymous (IP, email, phone number). This is not worth ruining your academic career over. For pete's sake, people -- be careful what you recommend to minors.

Also, since you're talking very critically about the situation here, I think directing him here would be a very bad idea from a reasonable self-interest POV.

On animal control: where I live (Wisconsin) the state humane society thinks ball pythons should live in fish tanks with heat lamps:

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...n-brown-county

It is a bit odd that though this situation is so terrible that you thought it prudent to get involved more deeply with it. Also, I'm a bit skeptical of the owl mention. Unless I'm mistaken, all native owls are protected in the US (I take it you're in the US -- your language strongly indicates you are). Which species of owl is this?

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Ok, thank you for warning me about that. I won't direct him to this website, but maybe another informative website about snake care?

Would it be better to wait until I've graduated high school, and then report it? As much as I want the animals to be treated well, like you said its not worth ruining my academic career over

Yes, I live in the US. I'm not sure what species the owl is, but what I know about it is that its a rescue that wasn't suited to being released back into the wild once rehabilitated. He's had it since it was young, and as far as I know he has the licenses he needs for it and all of his other animals. I just feel as if being in a classroom instead of an actual wildlife center isn't the best for it, especially since its too old now to take out and show students so it doesn't have as much academic value, and he obviously doesn't provide optimal care for most of his animals

They are in a public school. Its an environmental education class, and I think there are actually two teachers, but only one teaches my hour. I may be exaggerating the mistreatment a bit, especially of the animals which I dont know specifics about how to care for. But the animals are in the classroom, or rather, the classroom, the mammal room (a storage room next to it), and a greenhouse and yard right outside the classroom

And about the jars of hot water, I will do that, thank you for the suggestion! :)

Actually, would a plastic water bottle work? Apparently we dont have any jars that don't have food in them

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Originally Posted by aspen_opossum

Actually, would a plastic water bottle work? Apparently we dont have any jars that don't have food in them

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Sure, an empty water bottle- a canteen, anything that holds water- but not a thermos, because that's insulated- you want the heat to escape to warm the snake. ;)

I had to do this once (use jars of hot water) when I lost power for 4 days due to an ice storm (in '09). I bagged my snakes securely (separately), then put a couple in each of multiple "ice chests" (no ice!) for insulation- to keep the warmth from the jars of hot water inside. They stayed quite comfortable for 8-9 hours, but in a normal enclosure (not insulated), the warmth from jars of water won't last as long- but it will still help. You can refill them more often for a while if you want- but don't stay up all night...;)

It's low-tech, but this works quite well.

And yes, I agree- wait to report this stuff, & since we've discussed more about his animals here than is flattering, don't send him here either. You're really in a tough situation.

Just as a side note:
F/T animals will sometimes make bloody messes.
That said, the conditions do sound quite unsavory and chances are if you didn't see anything like a mini freezer nearby, the teacher is feeding live or in the case of the handicapped animals, possibly fresh kill. I am a bit skeptical about the teacher having the correct permits for the owl, but who knows... It would be VERY hard to not have them and have kids talking about 'the teacher with the owl'.
It sucks to be in this situation but especially if this is a small town, everyone will talk. And school itself may take the heat so not just this one teacher, but a few may take it out on you. They SHOULDN'T but as someone with a teacher who had a vendetta? Wait until you're out.

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Originally Posted by Armiyana

Just as a side note:
F/T animals will sometimes make bloody messes.
That said, the conditions do sound quite unsavory and chances are if you didn't see anything like a mini freezer nearby, the teacher is feeding live or in the case of the handicapped animals, possibly fresh kill. I am a bit skeptical about the teacher having the correct permits for the owl, but who knows... It would be VERY hard to not have them and have kids talking about 'the teacher with the owl'.
It sucks to be in this situation but especially if this is a small town, everyone will talk. And school itself may take the heat so not just this one teacher, but a few may take it out on you. They SHOULDN'T but as someone with a teacher who had a vendetta? Wait until you're out.

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I wouldn't say "small".. there's over 1,500 students who go to the school haha. But yes, I'm going to wait, there's too much possibility of repercussions

I admit I have no proof for saying he feeds the jawless snake live, but its still concerning how messy the enclosure was, since it makes me think he doesnt keep things properly sanitized (along with there being poop in the sinks, how dirty the ball python hide was, etc.). I think its just because of how many animals he has and how little time he has to deal with them though, since its not like he just leaves them there with nobody taking care of them. I dont think hes a bad person or doesn't care about the animals, but that doesn't change the conditions the animals should be living under, and if he cant provide that he either needs to get more help or rehome some of the animals