New here and learning about genetics.

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Originally Posted by nikkubus

I think breeding spider is absolutely fine as long as you are careful what you breed it with, and prepared to keep a baby as a pet IF you get a hatchling that happens to have a severe case of wobble, and of course disclosing possible wobble issues properly to buyers.

I absolutely adore my spiders, and I've never experienced a severe wobble problem.

Things to avoid breeding with spider are sable, champagne, woma, and hidden gene woma. Blackhead + spider doesn't have problems, but I would avoid it because they cancel each other out and don't give an appealing look. Spider + spider is not good either because you will get 25% of your eggs that fail to hatch or the hatchling will die almost immediately after birth.

Albino isn't something I would invest in unless you just happen to really like it. For the trouble of dealing with a recessive, it's just not worth the small amount you get for selling them. Some similar looking recessive morphs that sell better are Lavender Albino, Candy, and Ultramel. Banana or Coral Glow are incomplete dominant, look similar to Albino, and sell extremely well, so even better. Doing a double recessive project as a beginner is not a good idea in the first place, so Banana or Coral Glow would be much better to work with Clown in the project.

If it were me, spider or not, I probably wouldn't breed that male with that female. Picking up a male with a lot of morphs to get really good results is a better idea, and using cheap females with just a couple of genes. If you could save up for and find a male Banana/CG Enchi Clown maybe with a few other morphs, that would be a great idea.

Banana Enchi Clown x Pastel het Clown:
1/16 Banana Enchi Pastel Clown
1/16 Banana Enchi Clown
1/16 Banana Pastel Clown
1/16 Enchi Pastel Clown
1/16 Banana Clown
1/16 Enchi Clown
1/16 Pastel Clown
1/16 Clown
1/16 Banana Enchi Pastel het Clown
1/16 Banana Enchi het Clown
1/16 Banana Pastel het Clown
1/16 Enchi Pastel het Clown
1/16 Banana het Clown
1/16 Enchi het Clown
1/16 Pastel het Clown
1/16 Normal het Clown

and you could potentially breed that same expensive male to up to 6 females in the same season!

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This is a very helpful post. Thank you for responding. I am happy you detoured me from the albino. I was looking at a few males that were albino. I think they are pretty snakes. I didn't even think that the recessive genes would cancel each other out. That makes alot of sense. Also thanks for warning me about what not to breed with a spider. I appreciate the detail in the post. Like I said, I am a beginner in the ball python realm so I like to know what to look out for.

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Originally Posted by JJpeep

I didn't even think that the recessive genes would cancel each other out.

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Spider and Blackhead are both incomplete dominants and allelic, and seem to do the exact opposite thing, so when combined they cancel each other. Albino doesn't cancel out Clown if that's what you were thinking, but it's very difficult to make double recessives.

For example, even if you bred a visual Albino to a visual Clown, not hets, and you get %100 double het hatchlings, when you breed those double hets together, you only have 1/16 chance of getting an Albino Clown, and you get a TON of Normal 66% double hets that are near impossible to sell if you don't have a strong reputation.

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Originally Posted by nikkubus

Spider and Blackhead are both incomplete dominants and allelic, and seem to do the exact opposite thing, so when combined they cancel each other. Albino doesn't cancel out Clown if that's what you were thinking, but it's very difficult to make double recessives.

For example, even if you bred a visual Albino to a visual Clown, not hets, and you get %100 double het hatchlings, when you breed those double hets together, you only have 1/16 chance of getting an Albino Clown, and you get a TON of Normal 66% double hets that are near impossible to sell if you don't have a strong reputation.

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Your talking me out of breeding a clown I have with an albino female I picked up cheap lol

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Reason I brought up albino in the first place is because I saw an albino clown and thought it was a beautiful snake. But now that I have perspective, it is probably not the route I would take. Especially when not experienced with BP breeding. We have bred leopard geckos. But BPs are new in a breeding sense. We have only owned a few in the past and just for pets. Now that someone brought up banana, those are so pretty as well, maybe I'll find a banana male, with maybe some other morphs in, like suggested above.

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Originally Posted by JJpeep

Reason I brought up albino in the first place is because I saw an albino clown and thought it was a beautiful snake. But now that I have perspective, it is probably not the route I would take. Especially when not experienced with BP breeding. We have bred leopard geckos. But BPs are new in a breeding sense. We have only owned a few in the past and just for pets. Now that someone brought up banana, those are so pretty as well, maybe I'll find a banana male, with maybe some other morphs in, like suggested above.

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If you get a banana with pastel in it it will keep its yellow bright as it gets older. I had a banana lemonblast was a beautiful snake. Only got rid of it cause I had so many males

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Originally Posted by Santiago6621

Your talking me out of breeding a clown I have with an albino female I picked up cheap lol

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Yeah I wouldn't do it personally. I would spend the cash to at the very least get a candy clown male to go down that road so all the babies have some selling potential. If you don't care about double recessive route, a nice powerhouse multiple incomplete dominant male would get you a bunch of incomplete dominant het albino hatchlings that sell well :)

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Originally Posted by Santiago6621

If you get a banana with pastel in it it will keep its yellow bright as it gets older. I had a banana lemonblast was a beautiful snake. Only got rid of it cause I had so many males

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Pastel does a good job, but enchi even more so, which is why I suggested it :) With his female having pastel, he would get some of each.

All this info is awesome. I understand genetics up to a point and I was unfamiliar what not to pair certain morphs with others. So if we decide to breed the two we have Bee het clown and Pastel het clown. Would we get mostly clowns? Sorry if it is a dumb question
I am sure most of you have answered 100 times before. Just trying to understand a little bit. As for the Enchi gene, is the Enchi more of a pattern? Or is it a color?

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Originally Posted by JJpeep

All this info is awesome. I understand genetics up to a point and I was unfamiliar what not to pair certain morphs with others. So if we decide to breed the two we have Bee het clown and Pastel het clown. Would we get mostly clowns? Sorry if it is a dumb question
I am sure most of you have answered 100 times before. Just trying to understand a little bit. As for the Enchi gene, is the Enchi more of a pattern? Or is it a color?

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I believe u would get 1/4 clown of you go het to het

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by JJpeep

All this info is awesome. I understand genetics up to a point and I was unfamiliar what not to pair certain morphs with others. So if we decide to breed the two we have Bee het clown and Pastel het clown. Would we get mostly clowns? Sorry if it is a dumb question
I am sure most of you have answered 100 times before. Just trying to understand a little bit. As for the Enchi gene, is the Enchi more of a pattern? Or is it a color?

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Bee (Pastel Spider) Clown x Pastel het Clown:
1/32 Killer Bee (Super Pastel Spider) Clown
2/32 Bee Clown
1/32 Spider Clown
1/32 Super Pastel Clown
2/32 Pastel Clown
1/32 Clown
3/32 Killer Bee 66% het Clown [66% het in case you don't know means that 2/3 are het clown and 1/3 are not but there is no way to know which]
6/32 Bee 66% het Clown
3/32 Spider 66% het Clown
3/32 Super Pastel 66% het Clown
6/32 Pastel 66% het Clown
3/32 Normal 66% het Clown

It still isn't a "bad" outcome, but most of the babies will be really cheap and not sell super easy. Pastel, Killer Bee, and Bee aren't in high demand and probably sell for less than $100 each.

I wanted to post photos I took of both snakes today. I can't seem to figure out how. I'll see if I can figure it out. Lol