This just blows my mind...

Thanks Adam. That was great to go through it point by point and really helpful I think.

amg....don't you think publically reminding someone who is in the busiest part of his breeding time with his snakes that he hasn't returned one email is a bit rude? It may not be my place to say but you seen to have an expectation of immediate response to emails, PM's and forum posts that borders on demanding. I'm sure you don't mean to come across this way and will in future be more considerate of time constraints on those that participate here.

If I've overstepped myself here, my apologies to the Mods, Admins and Forum Members.


~~Jo~~

I am sorry if it seemed rude to anyone or offended anyone Next time I will just be more patient. Sorry

adam,

thank you so much for taking the time to go thru that point by point. as someone who is just learning,... it's a great way to learn... seeing the differences.

;)
aleesha

Ok want to makeone thing clear, I do not want a spankin. I believe in asking a lot of questions and trying to gather both sides of an issue. I am just posing a question.

My Salina has only been on the hot side once or twice. Her cage is right here on my desk where I see her several hours a day. She always sleeps in the same place. I rotate hides to give her some variety (this may or may not be a bad idea). If there is no hide there she will still sleep in the same place. I monitor her cage with a digital thermometer. She is a very happy healthy snake from what I can tell. She has a great dispostion to all manner of people.

Next the part where the guy talks about snakes sleeping underground. Remeber I don't want a spanking only to learn more. It is always much cooler under ground and that kind of seems logical to me. I do not know the relative temps of a BPs natural habitat. I can't even for a second begin to raise a logical arguement about what Adam said about the huge collectors. I am just trying to learn what the underground temps in thier wild habitat might be, and learn more about snakes.

Also could I see the link too, please? The first forum I joined to learn about snakes wasn't a good one in my opinion. There was a lot of mean spirited argueing and flaming. I was left to gather information and logically sort it out my self. Most of the time I can read between the lines and decide who knows and who doesn't. Please remember, NO SPANKING.

One should always listen to the arguements of both sides of any debate. They should also learn not only to separate fact from opinion and weigh them both, but to examine the presenters of those facts and opinions and weigh them both. Adam is very knowledgeable when it comes to BPs, that is a given. It is just that the statement about lower temps in the natural hiding places seems to make sense to me. Please remember, NO SPANKING.

i'm guessing here... you were spanked as a child?

*giggling*

no offense meant, just a giggle.

Great now you have forced me to recess back into my early childhood traumas. Looking back, I didn't get half as many as I deserved.

Anymore question's,man that was good!!!!! SPANKED

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lars5277

I am just trying to learn what the underground temps in thier wild habitat might be, and learn more about snakes.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Ambient air temps in their burrows have been measured at 82 - 86 degrees. Night time ambient air temps in west africa are also in the low 80's. Ball pythons are frequently observed basking during the day as well as laying on hot surfaces (rocks, roads, etc) in the evening in their native habitat.

---

Not a spanking... but doesn't this answer that question???

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lars5277

My Salina has only been on the hot side once or twice.

---

Then there could be a problem with your husbandry. Your cool side may be tool cool or your hot side might not provide enough security when she wants to be there. She should be spending good amounts of time on the hot side. I work with 100's of ball pythons every day and they all do.

Also, the rotating of hides isn't the best idea. Ball pythons thrive on consistency. Change can sometimes make them feel insecure. Imagine coming home everyday to find your furniture in a different arrangement ... pretty freaky.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lars5277

Next the part where the guy talks about snakes sleeping underground. Remeber I don't want a spanking only to learn more. It is always much cooler under ground and that kind of seems logical to me. I do not know the relative temps of a BPs natural habitat.

---

Well, I think that I covered relative burrow temps in my previous post, but I'll add this ... From friends that I have talked to that have been to west Africa and actually did field work with the trappers that collect ball pythons every day, I know that many ball pythons are found inside large termite mounds. These mounds are above ground on the open plains and are magnets for the harsh rays of the equatorial sun. I have been told that when you stick your hand inside one of these "burrows" that ball pythons are frequently found in your hand begins to literally sweat from the high temps and high humidity.

And finally, remember .... CAPTIVITY is not THE WILD .... one more time ... CAPTIVITY is not THE WILD ... the temps that I recommend and that the vast majority of the professional ball python keeping world uses are based on 35+ years of trial and error working with these animals in captivity. What works for ball pythons in their native habitat is not necessarily going to be the same once you put them in a box in your house. In the wild, if they are in that burrow and want to go out in the sun and bask for 20 minutes to get their bodies up to 95 degree, they can do it anytime they want ... if you don't give them that option in captivity, then you are denying them a basic requirement of their physiology. Even if you never see them use it, at least it's there in case one day they decide to ... that is good husbandry ... that is being a responsible pet owner.

-adam

My house isn't the "wild"....you've never been here when the teen son has his buddies over have ya Adam LOL. You've got that to look forward to when your son grows up (swarms of locusts have nuthin on a group of teenage boys and a full fridge and elephant herds move with less shakin of the ground!)

Good points made though Adam, as always.

One thing we've found with the balls is to make sure both hides are identical in size, construction, whatever as they can prefer a certain hide and stick to it to their own detriment. If both hides are exactly the same except for their position in the enclosure it seems to help the snake feel comfortable using either of them as it needs to.

I rarely see ours moving from hide to hide, they just do it when they need to. All I can do as their human is provide the enclosure to spec and leave it up to them at that point to do what they need to do.


~~Jo~~