Question for those who you barren tubs

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Originally Posted by Jmarshall

There are many specific studies on specific reptiles if you'd have taken the time to read through the link before posting..

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Sorry, seem to have hit a nerve. :)

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Originally Posted by Lord Sorril

Sorry, seem to have hit a nerve. :)

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No need to apologize. Just want to make sure you have the correct information to make an educated decision ;)

I always find it funny how someone will tell you how you should keep your snakes because their way is best (not talking about animals needing troubleshooting because of specific issues)

There are many ways to skin a cat and people needs to be more open minded, yet to some keeping a snake in a tub is borderline animal cruelty and the animal is barely surviving :rolleyes:

I have been keeping Ball Pythons in tubs, just a tub and a bowl of water for over a decade they don't just survive they thrive and they do as well as animals I have previously kept in cages or tanks.

Why?

Their needs are met and they live in a stress free environment, as a result I never had an animal with a RI, immune system issue, scale rot etc.

They eat, they breed, they spend 80% of their time hiding as they should do you think they would do more if they had an enriched environment? If so what would they do?

The issue with the first study is that it goes beyond the scope of snakes it talks about large lizard as well as tortoises which in this case is a whole other story., but this thresd is about Ball Pythons in tubs since this is where it was posted.

Bottom line people should not worry so much how others keep their animals so long the animals are healthy and thriving, people should keep their animals the way they are without being judge especially by people that have likely little to no experience keeping animals in setups they despise so much.

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Originally Posted by Jmarshall

... more enrichment for the animals and it cant do anything but help the animals. I just fear that reptiles get labeled as "simple" and are given the cheapest most convenient set up for the keepers without the animals best interest in mind...

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That's the problem...if you've decided that reptiles are "simple" & don't need enrichment to thrive, that's what you'll tend to "find" & justify. I'm totally with you on
this...snakes did not evolve in tubs, & in the wild they learn their way around to survive. How sad that so many don't think they might need more, but instead are
willing to just error on the side of their own convenience. How mind-numbing it must be to exist for years in a bare tub...and IMO, if that's all you have enough space
for, please don't get the pet. Just like other guidelines like having enough money to afford food & proper medical care when needed...if you don't have it, wait until
you do. Like sticking Betta "fighting fish" in a tiny bowl for life...just because they don't immediately die doesn't make it right. I wish empathy was a prerequisite. :(

To me, most of the fun of keeping snakes is not what fancy color they are & what can I breed them with to make "such & such",
but seeing them thrive in a realistic environment and seeing their behavior when challenged. I actually constructed maze-type hides
for a couple of my snakes when they arrived as hatchlings, and watching them explore & try each and every way in and out was as
much fun for me as it appeared to be for them. They also settled in quickly with regard to feeding...it was a sad day when they out-
grew them, but on to bigger "toys". ;)

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Originally Posted by Deborah

I always find it funny how someone will tell you how you should keep your snakes because their way is best (not talking about animals needing troubleshooting because of specific issues)

There are many ways to skin a cat and people needs to be more open minded, yet to some keeping a snake in a tub is borderline animal cruelty and the animal is barely surviving :rolleyes:

I have been keeping Ball Pythons in tubs, just a tub and a bowl of water for over a decade they don't just survive they thrive and they do as well as animals I have previously kept in cages or tanks.

Why?

Their needs are met and they live in a stress free environment, as a result I never had an animal with a RI, immune system issue, scale rot etc.

They eat, they breed, they spend 80% of their time hiding as they should do you think they would do more if they had an enriched environment? If so what would they do?

The issue with the first study is that it goes beyond the scope of snakes it talks about large lizard as well as tortoises which in this case is a whole other story., but this thresd is about Ball Pythons in tubs since this is where it was posted.

Bottom line people should not worry so much how others keep their animals so long the animals are healthy and thriving, people should keep their animals the way they are without being judge especially by people that have likely little to no experience keeping animals in setups they despise so much.

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Okay. Me asking others for their opinions and sharing mine is not judging anyone. Just because something is the way it is and works, doesn't make it ideal or optimum. I believe the purpose of enrichment is giving the animal choice. Again, the information that I provided suggests that an animal eating, shedding, and breeding is not thriving but surviving. I post some information that was put together by an animal welfare scientist with numerous studies and it gets shot down (possibly without even reading very much of it) because breeders have been successful. I bring up a conversation starter to get other peoples OPINIONS. Thank you for sharing yours.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

That's the problem...if you've decided that reptiles are "simple" & don't need enrichment to thrive, that's what you'll tend to "find" & justify. I'm totally with you on
this...snakes did not evolve in tubs, & in the wild they learn their way around to survive. How sad that so many don't think they might need more, but instead are
willing to just error on the side of their own convenience. How mind-numbing it must be to exist for years in a bare tub...and IMO, if that's all you have enough space
for, please don't get the pet. Just like other guidelines like having enough money to afford food & proper medical care when needed...if you don't have it, wait until
you do. Like sticking Betta "fighting fish" in a tiny bowl for life...just because they don't immediately die doesn't make it right. I wish empathy was a prerequisite. :(

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Completely agree. And again, I dont think there is anything inherently wrong with tubs.. But I do think they should be of adequate size and have more than a water dish.

Tbh, I was nervous about making this post but found the information I was reading interesting and thought it was pretty cool to see actual studies that shows the benefits of enrichment, in snakes, as well as other reptiles.

My hope is we can get some different perspectives on this from people with different points of view. Id like this to be civil. Im not trying to ruffle feathers.

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Originally Posted by Jmarshall

Completely agree. And again, I dont think there is anything inherently wrong with tubs.. But I do think they should be of adequate size and have more than a water dish.

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I totally agree :)

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...pslwkdrqxp.jpg

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Originally Posted by Lord Sorril

I totally agree :)

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...pslwkdrqxp.jpg

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If you don't agree with me (and thats completely fine), id love to hear your opinions on the matter instead of just mocking the topic. Also, I hope thats not your idea of an adequate sized tub :o)

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Originally Posted by Jmarshall

If you don't agree with me (and thats completely fine), id love to hear your opinions on the matter instead of just mocking the topic. Also, I hope thats not your idea of an adequate sized tub :o)

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I was demonstrating your point regarding enclosures that are too small and poorly decorated. It is laughable what some people consider appropriate.

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Originally Posted by Lord Sorril

I was demonstrating your point regarding enclosures that are too small and poorly decorated. It is laughable what some people consider appropriate.

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Okay, you scared me for a second.. Lol