Frozen VS Live

An angle that hasn't been mentioned on this thread; personally I think live feeding is needlessly cruel to the food animal.

I did live feedings long ago. I've seen it and I'm sure that the poor creature suffers. Snakes need to eat, and I have no great sympathy for rats, but all life deserves respect.

Since we need to feed snakes food animals, we should go to reasonable lengths to make sure that those food animals suffer as little as possible, if at all.

Of course, there can be extenuating circumstances, life is complicated. From what the OP said, live feedings seem like a necessary measure. I'm no absolutist.

I don't have any issues with live feedings but I think they're rarely necessary. I've gotten impatient and fed live prey to jumpstart a few critters appetites. Mostly with new arrivals, or after long winter fasts, but ultimately they all ate f/t. There may be a very small number of snakes that would rather starve and die than eat f/t. I haven't come across any of those but I have had a couple of stubborn hold outs. I've had kings, bulls, and carpets go 2-3 months without food. I've had BPs go 8-12 months without food. Eventually the will to survive kicks in and they eat. I'm a firm believer that the hunger ALWAYS wins in the end.

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

I am 100% in favor of feeding live as a jumpstart with I tricky eater, I've had to do it as well.
But based solely on what I've read here on this forum as well as other sources, it seems that feeding live in the UK is unheard of. I don't live there, but have read many times that this is the case.
Which leads me to question whether or not there are snakes that are "lifers" on live prey, refusing any other prey options. Or are we just doing things differently in the US than they are in the UK?

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It's an interesting point you raise to be honest ..

I'm a Brit and I've kept all types/species of snakes including many , many Royal pythons and I've never had one that simply refuses to eat thawed .

I've had one that went off her food for 9 months many years ago but has eaten great since and I've got a pair of Albino Royals who will only eat every 10 to 14 days .
But never had or even heard of any who simply refuse to eat thawed .

Maybe it's just down to expectations. ?




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Prefer frozen after looking at other's experience and experience I had.. Didn't do damage but almost..
Anyways, I don't really know about full grown ball python having live prey all their life but I had 7 month ball python who was on live before I got him.
I thought he would never switch to f/t because he just didn't take it. However, after 5 months of trying, he finally switched and is beating on f/t.
Meanwhile, I monitored his weight to see if there is major loss in weight.

I prefer frozen for coveinience and safety sake, but I have one ball that suddenly refused frozen and went nearly a year untill I caved and gave her live. Every time I feed her I wonder if this will be the day the rat wins. I have no issue feeding live from a moral point of view, life is full of suffering far surpassing that of a rodent being killed by a constrictor, I just worry about the risk to my snakes.

Up until a month or so ago I was feeding live. I have 2 balls. My older male, has been a picky eater. When we got him, he ate mice but preferred African soft furs. When our local pet shop couldn't keep up stock we'd use mice. Then he started refusing. And fasted for a month or so. About the same time we got a female, just a little 80 gram baby. She ate live weekly, and killed like a killer. Scary almost, how efficient she was. She has since grown like a weed and outweighs the older male by at least 300 grams.

We decided to feed them both rats, the female because she was getting bigger and needed prey larger than a mouse and the male because, why not see if he eats it and breaks his fast. Totally worked. Both on rats since. But the female was attacked by one when left alone for a bit too long due to my negligence at the time. No serious damage, but it was the last time a live rat has been with either of them.

We have someone that has been breeding rats and providing us with a couple every couple of weeks (I moved from trying to feed weekly to every 2 weeks with great success), and when the time comes I kill them quickly and feed them out. Interestingly, the male has been the most aggressive with getting his meal now than he was when they were live. Maybe the 2 week schedule was the key, i don't know. I just know he tries to snatch the dead rat from my hand before I can let go.

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Originally Posted by SiXandSeven8ths

Up until a month or so ago I was feeding live. I have 2 balls. My older male, has been a picky eater. When we got him, he ate mice but preferred African soft furs. When our local pet shop couldn't keep up stock we'd use mice. Then he started refusing. And fasted for a month or so. About the same time we got a female, just a little 80 gram baby. She ate live weekly, and killed like a killer. Scary almost, how efficient she was. She has since grown like a weed and outweighs the older male by at least 300 grams.

We decided to feed them both rats, the female because she was getting bigger and needed prey larger than a mouse and the male because, why not see if he eats it and breaks his fast. Totally worked. Both on rats since. But the female was attacked by one when left alone for a bit too long due to my negligence at the time. No serious damage, but it was the last time a live rat has been with either of them.

We have someone that has been breeding rats and providing us with a couple every couple of weeks (I moved from trying to feed weekly to every 2 weeks with great success), and when the time comes I kill them quickly and feed them out. Interestingly, the male has been the most aggressive with getting his meal now than he was when they were live. Maybe the 2 week schedule was the key, i don't know. I just know he tries to snatch the dead rat from my hand before I can let go.

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Feeding every 10 to 14 days certainly works great for some Royals ..


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Originally Posted by Zincubus

It's an interesting point you raise to be honest ..

I'm a Brit and I've kept all types/species of snakes including many , many Royal pythons and I've never had one that simply refuses to eat thawed .

I've had one that went off her food for 9 months many years ago but has eaten great since and I've got a pair of Albino Royals who will only eat every 10 to 14 days .
But never had or even heard of any who simply refuse to eat thawed .

Maybe it's just down to expectations. ?




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Thanks Zinc. I was hoping you'd see this and set is straight.

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Originally Posted by alittleFREE

Yeah, I'm actually pretty sure it's illegal to feed live prey in the UK.

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

I've heard that too, but then heard it's not an actual legal matter, but just one of those "unwritten rules".

Which makes me think that with time, patience and proper technique any animal can be switched. But again, no hands on experience, so not too sure.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

It's an interesting point you raise to be honest ..

I'm a Brit and I've kept all types/species of snakes including many , many Royal pythons and I've never had one that simply refuses to eat thawed .

I've had one that went off her food for 9 months many years ago but has eaten great since and I've got a pair of Albino Royals who will only eat every 10 to 14 days .
But never had or even heard of any who simply refuse to eat thawed .

Maybe it's just down to expectations. ?




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It's illegal to feed live for entertainment (sp?) or for any other reason that isn't vital for the snakes health - the greater problem is the age/size ratio as it is also illegal for any shop to provide an unweaned animal ( usually ruled as six weeks old ).

Like Zinc I have always fed F/T exclusively, sometimes that makes it harder to start hatchlings off but I have yet to have one starve itself to death. This is not to say I haven't had to intervene or resort to various techniques to avoid it. :rolleyes:


del

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Originally Posted by dr del

It's illegal to feed live for entertainment (sp?) or for any other reason that isn't vital for the snakes health - the greater problem is the age/size ratio as it is also illegal for any shop to provide an unweaned animal ( usually ruled as six weeks old ).

Like Zinc I have always fed F/T exclusively, sometimes that makes it harder to start hatchlings off but I have yet to have one starve itself to death. This is not to say I haven't had to intervene or resort to various techniques to avoid it. :rolleyes:


del

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Thank you!