Tank size questions

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Originally Posted by reptilemom25

Yes, tanks are VERY difficult to maintain humidity in. You would have a much better time in a tub. I realize you have substrate in the tank, just listing things you would need for a tub setup. It really is MUCH easier to maintain temps and humidity in a tub, hence the smaller dish for a smaller space. Are you using a thermoSTAT in addition to a thermoMETER? If not I would get one ASAP. Unregulated heat sources are a recipe for burns.


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I refuse to use UTH for that reason. I also wont use a tub. I've heard they are easier for temps and humidity but she is a beautiful and majestic animal and her tank is a centerpiece in my living room as are all of our reptiles (my husband has a tarantula and 2 scorpions) putting them in a tub just seems so impersonal and crude IMO

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Originally Posted by ckenney35

I refuse to use UTH for that reason. I also wont use a tub. I've heard they are easier for temps and humidity but she is a beautiful and majestic animal and her tank is a centerpiece in my living room as are all of our reptiles (my husband has a tarantula and 2 scorpions) putting them in a tub just seems so impersonal and crude IMO

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A lot of people have this opinion, but the nature of BPs means that, especially for young ones, being on display is stressful for them, particularly in a setup like yours. They do much better in tubs, where they can’t be seen all the time. It’s in their nature to hide, and they are easily stressed when young. It leads to feeding and behavior problems. It’s going to be almost impossible to use bulb or CHE heating in a tank like that and maintain both proper temps and humidity. Snakes are very different than inverts. Any heat source you use SHOULD be on a thermostat. The only overhead heat source I would attempt to use at the humidity level BPs require is an RHP.
I keep leopard geckos, crested geckos, a bearded dragon, and a BP. The requirements for them are vastly different, and I try to do what is best for each, not what pleases me. My bearded dragon has a beautiful 100 gal display enclosure. My crested is in a totally bio active, live planted vertical enclosure, my leopard has a custom setup in an Exo Terra. My BP is in a tub. She will eventually go in an animal plastics enclosure, but she is much more secure in the tub right now.


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Late to the game here and a little confused.


First, I agree you have a beautiful animal there. I would want to show her off too. However, I also know that glass tanks are not ideal for BP's and little ones in particular are usually very shy and need a lot of security. All BP's need proper regulated temps and humidity, unless you like sending your vet's kids to college.

If you have to make it work with a glass tank, we can help you with that, but it's an uphill battle.

There are plenty of enclosures that allow viewing the animal, but help your BP feel more secure and make it much easier to control temps and humidity properly. Boaphile Plastics and Animal Plastics are probably the two most common. I have the former and many people on here are happy with the latter.

I would get the enclosure correct temp wise and humidity wise and security wise and enjoy showing off your happy and healthy BP mostly when you take Lucy out and can allow people to view and experience/handle her.

It's been said, but all heat sources MUST be regulated by thermostat. Not should, or maybe, etc.

Too hot = neurological problems at best and death at worst.

Too cold = may not eat or won't digest properly which can lead to regurgitation; very bad.

Humidity - 55-65% with a bump in shed and with proper temps. Lack of proper temps and or humidity that is too low or too high can quickly lead to respiratory infections. That means shots, lots of $$$$$ and vet visits and a snake that will be more susceptible to RI's for the rest of its life.

Ambient temps: 80-83F

Hot side: 88-90F (90F is tops).

Cool side: 78-80F

All temps must be measured at the ground, where the snake is, and with a reliable and calibrated temp gun.

If you want to make this tank work for now:

1. Smaller water bowl - BP's don't generally soak and need fresh water to drink and to help maintain humidity.

2. Two equal size hides - One on the warm side and one on the cool side. http://www.reptilebasics.com/small-hide-box http://www.reptilebasics.com/medium-hide-box

The links above are ideal and cheap hides. Easy to clean as well. You want the small for now, but will need medium, and large, later.

A trick to make hides feel more secure if they are a little too big - not massively too big - is to crumble up some paper towels and stick them in/under the hide. This helps block out light and makes the snake feel more secure. I have a tiny baby corn snake (in addition to the rest of my reptile collection - including a BP) and even the mini hides are a little too big for her still. Half a sheet of crumbled up paper towel and she is happy as a clam. She can borrow under and in the paper towels in her dark hide and feel very safe.

3. Thermostat. Get one that you can grow with. At least 2 devices capable. https://www.spyderrobotics.com/index...products_id=76 https://www.spyderrobotics.com/index...products_id=26

4. UTH - I prefer for hot side ASSUMING it is regulated, but I already said all heating devices must be, so I am probably being redundant. The probe for the thermostat goes between the UTH and the glass bottom of the tank. Do not set and forget. All heating sources will need to be checked regularly and sometimes adjusted. When you first set them up, you will notice there is most likely a discrepancy between the temp where the probe is and ground temps where the snake is. Adjust accordingly. It may read 90F on the UTH probe, but be 88F at the tank bottom, or 93F, etc.

5. CHE for ambient temps and maybe a little warm side temp. Again, regulated by thermostat. I prefer RHP but in a glass tank, that isn't happening. CHE's work well in this application.

In a 30G - if you do the above and place the CHE middle to slightly closer to the hot side, and it's 84F below and 88F on the UTH, it should be about 78F on the cool side as well. It all depends on room temps, etc. You might need to adjust placement of the CHE.

Wishing you the best of luck and hoping you better understand the needs of beautiful Lucy now.

Feel free to ask for clarification or about anything else you need help with.

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Originally Posted by dakski

Late to the game here and a little confused.


First, I agree you have a beautiful animal there. I would want to show her off too. However, I also know that glass tanks are not ideal for BP's and little ones in particular are usually very shy and need a lot of security. All BP's need proper regulated temps and humidity, unless you like sending your vet's kids to college.

If you have to make it work with a glass tank, we can help you with that, but it's an uphill battle.

There are plenty of enclosures that allow viewing the animal, but help your BP feel more secure and make it much easier to control temps and humidity properly. Boaphile Plastics and Animal Plastics are probably the two most common. I have the former and many people on here are happy with the latter.

I would get the enclosure correct temp wise and humidity wise and security wise and enjoy showing off your happy and healthy BP mostly when you take Lucy out and can allow people to view and experience/handle her.

It's been said, but all heat sources MUST be regulated by thermostat. Not should, or maybe, etc.

Too hot = neurological problems at best and death at worst.

Too cold = may not eat or won't digest properly which can lead to regurgitation; very bad.

Humidity - 55-65% with a bump in shed and with proper temps. Lack of proper temps and or humidity that is too low or too high can quickly lead to respiratory infections. That means shots, lots of $$$$$ and vet visits and a snake that will be more susceptible to RI's for the rest of its life.

Ambient temps: 80-83F

Hot side: 88-90F (90F is tops).

Cool side: 78-80F

All temps must be measured at the ground, where the snake is, and with a reliable and calibrated temp gun.

If you want to make this tank work for now:

1. Smaller water bowl - BP's don't generally soak and need fresh water to drink and to help maintain humidity.

2. Two equal size hides - One on the warm side and one on the cool side. http://www.reptilebasics.com/small-hide-box http://www.reptilebasics.com/medium-hide-box

The links above are ideal and cheap hides. Easy to clean as well. You want the small for now, but will need medium, and large, later.

A trick to make hides feel more secure if they are a little too big - not massively too big - is to crumble up some paper towels and stick them in/under the hide. This helps block out light and makes the snake feel more secure. I have a tiny baby corn snake (in addition to the rest of my reptile collection - including a BP) and even the mini hides are a little too big for her still. Half a sheet of crumbled up paper towel and she is happy as a clam. She can borrow under and in the paper towels in her dark hide and feel very safe.

3. Thermostat. Get one that you can grow with. At least 2 devices capable. https://www.spyderrobotics.com/index...products_id=76 https://www.spyderrobotics.com/index...products_id=26

4. UTH - I prefer for hot side ASSUMING it is regulated, but I already said all heating devices must be, so I am probably being redundant. The probe for the thermostat goes between the UTH and the glass bottom of the tank. Do not set and forget. All heating sources will need to be checked regularly and sometimes adjusted. When you first set them up, you will notice there is most likely a discrepancy between the temp where the probe is and ground temps where the snake is. Adjust accordingly. It may read 90F on the UTH probe, but be 88F at the tank bottom, or 93F, etc.

5. CHE for ambient temps and maybe a little warm side temp. Again, regulated by thermostat. I prefer RHP but in a glass tank, that isn't happening. CHE's work well in this application.

In a 30G - if you do the above and place the CHE middle to slightly closer to the hot side, and it's 84F below and 88F on the UTH, it should be about 78F on the cool side as well. It all depends on room temps, etc. You might need to adjust placement of the CHE.

Wishing you the best of luck and hoping you better understand the needs of beautiful Lucy now.

Feel free to ask for clarification or about anything else you need help with.

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I understood the basics because I had a regular ball python for 8 years before my exes sister killed her in a house fire while we were on vacation (long story but broke my heart and life happened so I never got around to getting another until now)

So let me explain a bit more what's going on with Lucy.

I was never a fan of UTH but will if I need to. I never used a glass type aquairium with Zeke (my last nake) I bought the acrylic terrerrium which seemed to hold humidity and heat better.

Currently Lucy has the two bulb type lamps for heat with zoo med thermometers. Hot side stays about 80 to 85 and cold side around 75.

Humidity is staying around 40 to 60% and that's with the moss I put in and daily misting and I'm considering getting a reptifogger or Exxo terra misting unit if need be.

I do have two probe type digital thermometers to keep an eye on temps. I also have the.

I will pick her up another hide tomorrow for cool side.

If absolutely necessary I will buy another cage but really prefer not to

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by ckenney35

I understood the basics because I had a regular ball python for 8 years before my exes sister killed her in a house fire while we were on vacation (long story but broke my heart and life happened so I never got around to getting another until now)

So let me explain a bit more what's going on with Lucy.

I was never a fan of UTH but will if I need to. I never used a glass type aquairium with Zeke (my last nake) I bought the acrylic terrerrium which seemed to hold humidity and heat better.

Currently Lucy has the two bulb type lamps for heat with zoo med thermometers. Hot side stays about 80 to 85 and cold side around 75.

Humidity is staying around 40 to 60% and that's with the moss I put in and daily misting and I'm considering getting a reptifogger or Exxo terra misting unit if need be.

I do have two probe type digital thermometers to keep an eye on temps. I also have the.

I will pick her up another hide tomorrow for cool side.

If absolutely necessary I will buy another cage but really prefer not to

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80-85F is a significant temp fluctuation. Is that for your hot spot surface temp or ambient? Keep in mind the most accurate way to measure surface temps is with a temp gun, the wired thermoMETERS will not be as precise as they are more designed to measure ambient temps.


Are the heat lamps regulated by a thermoSTAT? I'm only seeing you mention thermoMETERSs.

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Originally Posted by MissterDog

80-85F is a significant temp fluctuation. Is that for your hot spot surface temp or ambient? Keep in mind the most accurate way to measure surface temps is with a temp gun, the wired thermoMETERS will not be as precise as they are more designed to measure ambient temps.


Are the heat lamps regulated by a thermoSTAT? I'm only seeing you mention thermoMETERSs.

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Yes I purchased two zoomed 1000w thermostats

80-85F is the hot side

The overall temp in the cage is around 80F

The two probe type thermometers I have are buried under at least 2inches of substrate which is how I always did it with my last snake and maybe I was lucky then but Zeke never had a RI or any type of illness.

So I guess tomorrow I'll go and get a UTH and another hide

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by ckenney35

Yes I purchased two zoomed 1000w thermostats

80-85F is the hot side

The overall temp in the cage is around 80F

The two probe type thermometers I have are buried under at least 2inches of substrate which is how I always did it with my last snake and maybe I was lucky then but Zeke never had a RI or any type of illness.

So I guess tomorrow I'll go and get a UTH and another hide

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First, 80-85F is a good gradient from cool to hot, but not enough for proper digestion for a hot spot. Hot spot should be about 88F up to 90F for proper digestion and health.

Not clear whether or not the probes are just for thermometers or for the thermostats too. However, probes for thermostats should not be buried where an animal can spill on them, waste on them, move them, etc. To get accurate ground temps, you must use a temp gun! Do not rely on air thermometers.

Yes, please get or order another hide that's good for a BP. Preferably two. You want identical hides so Lucy never chooses safety and security over proper thermoregulation.

I put links for really good, cheap, and easy to clean hides, in my last post.

Zoomed Thermostats will hold you over, but are not ideal. Please consider getting a proper thermostat that can run multiple devices, or two thermostats if you want it to be more complex.

Any thermostat can freeze open, but I've heard mixed things on the zoomed.

I would also consider, if keeping the 30G for now, blocking off 3 of the walls of the tank with cardboard or black window liner, etc. You can get a roll of black window inserts for under $10 on amazon. Home depot probably sells as well.

Lucy will feel much more secure and less exposed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dakski

First, 80-85F is a good gradient from cool to hot, but not enough for proper digestion for a hot spot. Hot spot should be about 88F up to 90F for proper digestion and health.

Not clear whether or not the probes are just for thermometers or for the thermostats too. However, probes for thermostats should not be buried where an animal can spill on them, waste on them, move them, etc. To get accurate ground temps, you must use a temp gun! Do not rely on air thermometers.

Yes, please get or order another hide that's good for a BP. Preferably two. You want identical hides so Lucy never chooses safety and security over proper thermoregulation.

I put links for really good, cheap, and easy to clean hides, in my last post.

Zoomed Thermostats will hold you over, but are not ideal. Please consider getting a proper thermostat that can run multiple devices, or two thermostats if you want it to be more complex.

Any thermostat can freeze open, but I've heard mixed things on the zoomed.

I would also consider, if keeping the 30G for now, blocking off 3 of the walls of the tank with cardboard or black window liner, etc. You can get a roll of black window inserts for under $10 on amazon. Home depot probably sells as well.

Lucy will feel much more secure and less exposed.

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Should I invest in the repti fogger or Exxo terra monsoon misting system to help with humidity control?

I took your advice and got her identical hides and the backdrop to cover 3 sides.

I got an UTH controlled by it's own zoomed thermostat until I can afford the more expensive one



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Quote:

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Originally Posted by ckenney35

Should I invest in the repti fogger or Exxo terra monsoon misting system to help with humidity control?

I took your advice and got her identical hides and the backdrop to cover 3 sides.

I got an UTH controlled by it's own zoomed thermostat until I can afford the more expensive one



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Good you got a UTH to up the hot side temps and that it's being controlled by a thermostat. To be clear, there is a probe for the thermostat attached, correct? It's not a UTH with, essentially, a dimmer on it, correct? If so, you still need to plug into your zoomed thermostat until you can get a better one down the road.

Nice work on the backdrop and identical hides. A happy secure snake is a good eating snake and, usually, at least with BP's, a pretty calm and docile snake.

Good question on humidity. It's up there in importance with temperature. Misting systems have pros and cons. A big con with them is that the mist is usually cooler than the air temp and brings down temps. Cold and damp are not good. They also need hydrometer to tell them when to run and to keep them from making things too humid or not humid enough. That's another cost.

I would recommend covering the top of the tank with tin foil (safer than a towel, for example, if you have a CHE, etc) aside from where the CHE is. I'd also look at your substrate. What are you using?

Make the tin foil as tight as possible over the screen and that will help keep humidity in.

Misting with a regular water bottle sprayer/plant mister from home depot for $1 can work, but don't overdue it, and USE WARM WATER. When it's a little dry in the winter, I mist my Boaphile tanks with my humid residents (BCI and BP), every day or two (as needed) but fill the water sprayer with hot tap water. Not boiling etc. But 110-120F tap water (thats about as hot as my tap water gets). Then I spray before it cools down. On mist, the water drops temp substantially when coming out of the spray bottle. 110F = 80F when misting. Never mist with room temp or cold water.

Another option is to use cypress mulch or Sphagmum moss, or a mix, over or mixed in with your substrate. A little goes a long way and can hold humidity well when pre-moistened (by you). You also put in a little dish, etc. to help raise humidity.

https://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-Fores.../dp/B0010OVM7A

https://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-Labor.../dp/B0019J2MA2

Keep us in the loop on your progress and continue to ask questions as needed. We are here to help.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dakski

Good you got a UTH to up the hot side temps and that it's being controlled by a thermostat. To be clear, there is a probe for the thermostat attached, correct? It's not a UTH with, essentially, a dimmer on it, correct? If so, you still need to plug into your zoomed thermostat until you can get a better one down the road.

Nice work on the backdrop and identical hides. A happy secure snake is a good eating snake and, usually, at least with BP's, a pretty calm and docile snake.

Good question on humidity. It's up there in importance with temperature. Misting systems have pros and cons. A big con with them is that the mist is usually cooler than the air temp and brings down temps. Cold and damp are not good. They also need hydrometer to tell them when to run and to keep them from making things too humid or not humid enough. That's another cost.

I would recommend covering the top of the tank with tin foil (safer than a towel, for example, if you have a CHE, etc) aside from where the CHE is. I'd also look at your substrate. What are you using?

Make the tin foil as tight as possible over the screen and that will help keep humidity in.

Misting with a regular water bottle sprayer/plant mister from home depot for $1 can work, but don't overdue it, and USE WARM WATER. When it's a little dry in the winter, I mist my Boaphile tanks with my humid residents (BCI and BP), every day or two (as needed) but fill the water sprayer with hot tap water. Not boiling etc. But 110-120F tap water (thats about as hot as my tap water gets). Then I spray before it cools down. On mist, the water drops temp substantially when coming out of the spray bottle. 110F = 80F when misting. Never mist with room temp or cold water.

Another option is to use cypress mulch or Sphagmum moss, or a mix, over or mixed in with your substrate. A little goes a long way and can hold humidity well when pre-moistened (by you). You also put in a little dish, etc. to help raise humidity.

https://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-Fores.../dp/B0010OVM7A

https://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-Labor.../dp/B0019J2MA2

Keep us in the loop on your progress and continue to ask questions as needed. We are here to help.

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The UTH does not have any probe or anything. There is a probe attached to the zoomed thermostat which I buried about halfway under substrate underneath the hide on the hot side.

As for substrate, I am using eco earth about 4 inches deep with sphagnum moss on top about a loose inch or two. I was always told NO wood shavings of ANY kind cause they can cause RI's and that was told to me by my friend who bought me my first BP and he was a herp major in college.

I will try the tin foil and was also reading about plexiglass with the holes cut out.

Now the CHE I'm assuming that's a ceramic element which again I was told by Nick they were dangerous so I opted to buy what he said which was a 100w day bulb and a 150w red bulb for night as it simulates a day/night cycle so is this okay in place of a ceramic element? I have the thermostat on cool side set to shut off at 80F

Lucy seems to be fine she hides during the day and explores at night. She seems to love the hour that I get her out at night and let her roam on my arms or neck

I also kept the temple hides and just bought another but packed some dry moss inside so she fits more 'snug' to make sure she feels secure and I spread out the fake plants so if she does roam around she can easily hide if she gets scared.

I'll try the misting with a bottle first to see if that helps and I'm off to walmart tomorrow to get the digital humidity gauge for her tank.

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