Same genes, different names...?

Looks like this is a subject that really needs to get hashed out and clarified. I know there's more! Recently I've seen too many "new" genes which are obviously other genes renamed or mixes all muddled up that are unidentified and people just want to put a new label on instead of figuring out the original genetics involved in the combos.

Here are some off the top of my head:
I just bought 2 'paint' gene snakes. I believe that is the same as 'nazca'. And i think theres another out there that is similar.

I have heard recently people calling fire and vanilla the same but i think theyre just allelic?

Many people suggest black pastel and cinnamon are the same, but i myself disagree on that one.

Gravel and yellowbelly are virtually indistinguishable except in super form. They are allelic as well.

Hypo, ghost, and orange ghost are accepted by most to be the same gene, but the line varies the color vivacity.

Sugar and calico are the same.

Disclaimer i am not an expert please correct me if i am wrong here lol.


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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

subtle differences can often be remarked on, however there are always other genes at play that can change the appearance of the snake.

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And do not forget the effects of selective/line breeding (even if it is done subconsciously) which can also influence "differences"

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Originally Posted by Avsha531

Toffee/Candy?

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Toffee and Candy are absolutely the same. The original two animals were imported at the same time in the same bag and were siblings.

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Originally Posted by Roux

I just bought 2 'paint' gene snakes. I believe that is the same as 'nazca'. And i think theres another out there that is similar.

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Neo (from RDR) and Sentinel (from Bill Stegal). Mark Haas had one too, cannot remember what it was called

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Originally Posted by Roux

I have heard recently people calling fire and vanilla the same but i think theyre just allelic?

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Vanilla and Fire are allelic but definitely not the same, SuperVanilla are nothing like SuperFire.

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Originally Posted by Roux

Many people suggest black pastel and cinnamon are the same, but i myself disagree on that one.

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I agree with you that BlkPastel and Cinny are different but there are others in the complex that are most likely the same, like HRA and GreenPastel and Lori

I will also note that there are multiple lines of both BlkPastel and Cinny that have been imported.

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Originally Posted by Roux

Hypo, ghost, and orange ghost are accepted by most to be the same gene, but the line varies the color vivacity.

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A caution here that there are some lines of Hypo that are not compatible. GCR-line Hypo has proven to be non-compatible and Graziani has two lines of Hypo (G1 and G2) that are also totally separate

In the uk we have Toffino but I think you call it something like Pastel Banana or something..


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Originally Posted by Zincubus

In the uk we have Toffino but I think you call it something like Pastel Banana or something..


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I can see where you would see the similarities, but over here Candino/ Toffino is an ALS animal that is het Albino and het Candy/Toffee

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Originally Posted by Sirus Uno

Looks like this is a subject that really needs to get hashed out and clarified. I know there's more! Recently I've seen too many "new" genes which are obviously other genes renamed or mixes all muddled up that are unidentified and people just want to put a new label on instead of figuring out the original genetics involved in the combos.

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I agree with you 100%!

The real problem now is those that identify their "own line" of a gene. There are so many fire lines. If they are all compatible = same line. Axanthic actually has lines that when bred together are NOT compatible. That should be what determines a line. I watched a YT video and this guy bought a CB animal from someone and he said it looks like it has fire too and then went on to say he would name it his fire line. WTF.

Banana/Coral Glow
Calico/Sugar
Mystic/Phantom
Butter/Lesser

All of the name changes are miraculously found when the price dropped. Lessers dropped in price and then all of a sudden Sugar appeared at 3x the cost.

These people with these new genes aren't hand importing wild animals, they are buying CB animals and when YB or something pops up, its a new gene. So many want to be the first, coolest, most followers and likes and have no idea what they are talking about.

Someone made a video and said "this just means its 66% that its 100% het" and all I could think of is "It's called Sex Panther by Odeon. They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time, it works every time." So many experts are just regurgitating others and it spreads like wildfire which is why all of these "NEW" genes. I counted 17 IG posts in the last 3 weeks with said new genes.

Lmao! Sex panther!
I agree. I understand years of line breeding some specific traits and creating your own line of a base gene... Like Brian Gundy and his gold blush Mojave. Seems like some of the bigger breeders are changing the name of a gene to suit their style... I'd hate to name drop right now because honestly they've done so much in regards to the development of the reptile hobby and create some really amazing animals... But some of the ball pythons have so many genes in them they even have a hard time figuring all the factors involved. With that being said... Isn't fire/flame/sulfur the same?

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Originally Posted by Sirus Uno

I understand years of line breeding some specific traits and creating your own line of a base gene... Like Brian Gundy and his gold blush Mojave.

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Didn't the gold blush turn out to be a separate gene though? Sort of like blade came out of clown and leopard showed up in het pieds. It's interesting how some genes can mask the appearance of others.

If there's anything I've learned over the last couple of years it's that there's so much variety even within a given morph. You can have two snakes with the same genes but they look drastically different from each other. I think if anything odd showed up in my collection I'd do my due diligence to prove whether or not it was something that's already out there before I slapped a new label on it. There's no reason we need half a dozen lines of fire or pastel.

I was recently looking on morph market and read that the Goblin is a Ralph Davis line of yellow belly. I'm guessing its been line bred to produce a more extreme variation of the coloration and patterning than a regular yb.
I have a hard time with most of those morphs. Many of them seem like variations of classic bp's. At least until they're mixed with other genes... For the most part. Some of them don't even tweak the gene they're being mixed into though.