Producing Double Hets....

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Originally Posted by ddbjdealer

Most het pieds also have signs stapled to them between their 4th and 8th subcaudal scales. You have to look close though. Some may require a magnifying glass.

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ROFLMFAO!! ... Now that is one of the funniest posts I have ever seen! ... LOL ... Much better than the albino joke you emailed me Ken! ;)

Can't wait for the subcaudal scale het pied marker rumor to start making the rounds now! LMAO!

-adam

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Originally Posted by ddbjdealer

Most het pieds also have signs stapled to them between their 4th and 8th subcaudal scales. You have to look close though. Some may require a magnifying glass.


DISCLAIMER: I am joking! To all of you looking at your poss hets and normals with a magnifying glass... look closer!

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:P hehe, nice one..

Still intresting topic, so crossing between albino en piebald gives a 100% Hetero pair for both morphs if my genetics are right?

Dreams for the feature..

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Originally Posted by MATTI

Still intresting topic, so crossing between albino en piebald gives a 100% Hetero pair for both morphs if my genetics are right?

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That would sure be awesome, if that were true. If you cross an albino with a piebald, you would get some het for pied, some het for albino, and some double het for both. They would all be normal appearing. (This is for a homozygous albino to homozygous pied)

Het to Het, and it just gets hugely confusing.

None the less, albino pieds are freakin cool lookin. Ralph Davis has some on his page.

Oh, but the Double Het Albino/Pieds don't have the stapled sign on thier bellies.

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Originally Posted by ddbjdealer

That would sure be awesome, if that were true. If you cross an albino with a piebald, you would get some het for pied, some het for albino, and some double het for both. They would all be normal appearing. (This is for a homozygous albino to homozygous pied)

Het to Het, and it just gets hugely confusing.

None the less, albino pieds are freakin cool lookin. Ralph Davis has some on his page.

Oh, but the Double Het Albino/Pieds don't have the stapled sign on thier bellies.

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Actually Ken, breeding albino x pied will produce all 100% dbl hets for albino pied. When you breed a homozygous animal to anything, all of the offspring will be hets. When you breed two homozygous animals to each other, all of the offspring will be het for each (or double hets).

Now if you really want to have fun, how about breeding two double homozygous animals together ... quad hets! :D

-adam

That's what I tought..

small calculation with aa = albino, pp = piebald (AA, PP wildcolor)

aaPP x AApp --> AaPp 100%
albino piebald double het.

correct?

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Originally Posted by MATTI

That's what I tought..

small calculation with aa = albino, pp = piebald (AA, PP wildcolor)

aaPP x AApp --> AaPp 100%
albino piebald double het.

correct?

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Yes.

-adam

oops.. But, still no marker stapled to the albino/pied DH's bellies, right?


...sticking tail between legs....

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Originally Posted by ddbjdealer

But, still no marker stapled to the albino/pied DH's bellies, right?

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Depends on who you ask? :P :neener:

-adam

The markers make it more attractive for people who only have hets to try to make combos rather than leaving it to people with homozygous pairs.

For example, with spiders and pastel there is no disagreement that there are het markers - the hets are mutant spiders and pastels. The super pastels are the homozygous version. Pastel and spider are het markers that are very reliable, probably close to 100%. When you breed a heterozygous spider (most if not all visible spiders are hets) to a heterozygous pastel (a regular pastel) you are crossing het X het trying to make the 1 in 4 odds double heat bumble bee. You can easily look at the clutch and see if you got a pair of double hets and of course the bumblebees are nice enough that you might not even keep trying for killer bee or the theoretical homozygous spider killer bee (it would be cool if one can be produced though as it would produce 100% bumblebees with normals). These visible het projects to produce visible double hets are much quicker than a fully recessive project where it takes another generation and you are then working against 1 in 16 odds. And the big reason most don't start out say a snow project with het albino X het axanthic is that you would not know which of the average 1 in 4 of the clutch where double hets.

If there is anything to the pied het belly marker (and I believe there is) you could use it to allow you to start pied crosses with a pied het rather than a homozygous pied and pick out the on average 50% of the clutch that is pied het by sight. I have to admit the pied combos that came out this year look better than I expected so maybe some will be tempted to try starting projects with a pied het X a pastel/spider/albino/axanthic. Still a gamble that most probably wouldn't take, especially considering the value of a female of any of those morphs for breeding to something else (like maybe a loan to a homozygous pied male to remove any doubt).

Still you would have a shot at producing a pastel pied in as little as 4 years starting with a $2000 investment and raising up as few as 3 animals (pastel male, het pied female, and pastel het pied marker male to breed back to the het pied female). The gambles would be hitting the 1 in 8 male pastel het pied marker first clutch and trusting the marker. Where as say a clown ghost project would cost much more to start ($15k? assuming homozygous X homozygous), take longer to finish raising up 2 generations of females (the original homozygous and the double het), and probably require raising up a lot more animals to cover the 1 in 16 odds.

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

If there is anything to the pied het belly marker (and I believe there is)

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And your belief is based on what empirical data exactly?

-adam