Is it Necessary?

A sturdy ball python hide for an adult is pretty expensive. We're not talking a plastic tub that's cut out, if you wanted a large hide that could fit the whole snake, not tip over and break apart,, Ijust checked online it's $50 dollars Canadian so slightly less cause your in the States.

I mean at night I turn off any light source that produces heat, some nights might turn on the red light. But just keep their heat mat on. Just like Africa the night is always cooler than the day, obviously it doesn't get freezing in the house but the temperature naturally just drops to a comfortable degree.

And that's exactly why I let in the sun shine, cause in Africa a Ball is going to be in some abandoned hide during the day but we're talking Africa that sun is going to be blasting on that hide all day, and it's going to get into the hide some what. Plus any sun light a snake gets is more beneficial as Vitamin D is good for a snake. With or without the sun shining on the tank, the ball is probably going to be in its hide during the day, sunshine is going be more positive than negative.

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Originally Posted by Hamsnacks

A sturdy ball python hide for an adult is pretty expensive. We're not talking a plastic tub that's cut out, if you wanted a large hide that could fit the whole snake, not tip over and break apart,, Ijust checked online it's $50 dollars Canadian so slightly less cause your in the States.

I mean at night I turn off any light source that produces heat, some nights might turn on the red light. But just keep their heat mat on. Just like Africa the night is always cooler than the day, obviously it doesn't get freezing in the house but the temperature naturally just drops to a comfortable degree.

And that's exactly why I let in the sun shine, cause in Africa a Ball is going to be in some abandoned hide during the day but we're talking Africa that sun is going to be blasting on that hide all day, and it's going to get into the hide some what. Plus any sun light a snake gets is more beneficial as Vitamin D is good for a snake. With or without the sun shining on the tank, the ball is probably going to be in its hide during the day, sunshine is going be more positive than negative.

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you need to get more creative. [emoji6] buy a terra cotta planter big enough, make a hole. ~$15.

this isn't africa tho, and they're not in the wild. they're pets. there's no benefit to dropping temps.

also, how does "extra" vitamin D do anything for a nocturnal animal??? there's no basis for that at all, and there is no science proving positive or negative. here is a study done on captive ball pythons showing no correlation between exposure to vitamin D and how well they absorbed calcium (the biological process vitamin D is used for).

i cover 3 sides to almost all my snakes enclosures. whatever sunlight makes it into their tubs is plenty.

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

you need to get more creative. [emoji6] buy a terra cotta planter big enough, make a hole. ~$15.

this isn't africa tho, and they're not in the wild. they're pets. there's no benefit to dropping temps.

also, how does "extra" vitamin D do anything for a nocturnal animal??? there's no basis for that at all, and there is no science proving positive or negative. here is a study done on captive ball pythons showing no correlation between exposure to vitamin D and how well they absorbed calcium (the biological process vitamin D is used for).

i cover 3 sides to almost all my snakes enclosures. whatever sunlight makes it into their tubs is plenty.

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To each their own I guess lol, nothing against your suggestions, pretty funny and creative not going to lie.

Not here to argue, but you might want to do a bit more research on Vitamin D and animals, your link is from 2013, Nocturnal animals just means they are more active at night. The Moon reflects UV light, BPs get UV light no matter what lol, they also get it from their food, but now compare a wild mouse vs a captivity mouse, is that mouse getting exposed to UV enough, does it have enough vitamins for your BP? Just something to think about.
The debate is, is UV really beneficial or not, since I am not giving my snakes UV at night, mind as well give them it during the day while they are in their hides, whether they get any or not, won't harm them in anyway. If you read this link, its interesting, there may be signs that extra Vitamin D can be transferred to the eggs of a female BP.

https://www.researchgate.net/post/Is...captive_snakes

Good Luck on your snakes! All the best. Like I said not here to argue but a good debate.

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Originally Posted by Hamsnacks

To each their own I guess lol, nothing against your suggestions, pretty funny and creative not going to lie.

Not here to argue, but you might want to do a bit more research on Vitamin D and animals, your link is from 2013, Nocturnal animals just means they are more active at night. The Moon reflects UV light, BPs get UV light no matter what lol, they also get it from their food, but now compare a wild mouse vs a captivity mouse, is that mouse getting exposed to UV enough, does it have enough vitamins for your BP? Just something to think about.
The debate is, is UV really beneficial or not, since I am not giving my snakes UV at night, mind as well give them it during the day while they are in their hides, whether they get any or not, won't harm them in anyway. If you read this link, its interesting, there may be signs that extra Vitamin D can be transferred to the eggs of a female BP.

https://www.researchgate.net/post/Is...captive_snakes

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i shared a published scientific study, and in the link you posted, the latest article cited by a member is from 2013 so...got any better sources?

also this is directly copied from your link, from the first poster:

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Of course it is also possible that ball pythons do not synthesise vitamin D3 from UVB, but obtain all they need from their diet. Very high serum 25(OH)D3 in the experimental group, initially, before they had ever experienced UVB, clearly indicates that dietary supplementation with D3 works in this species

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if you have any studies about UVB absorption of wild rodents in Africa vs captive bred for food, send it my way.

and the bit you cited about eggs? the poster said the study cannot claim that to be true! it's just speculation. from your own link:

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All the females in the experimental group (a batch from one owner) had extremely high 25(OH)D3 levels initially, compared to the control group (a batch from another owner) so the groups were not comparable from the start. Also, the females in both groups had far higher 25(OH)D3 levels than the males, both at the start and the end... the authors discuss the possibility of egg production stimulating raised serum 25(OH)D3 levels in these females. This surely raises the question as to whether, if vitamin D3 synthesis was indeed occurring in the females given UVB, any extra produced could have been transferred to developing eggs - which require high levels of vitamin D for embryonic development.

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im not arguing either, but you have yet to prove what you're saying is true.

But I have proved what I'm saying is true. Ball pythons in the wild are exposed to Sunlight every single day through the moon and every time they eat.

In captivity breeder mice 90% of the time are just kept in a box or what not just bulking up to get eaten. While in the wild they are exposed to sunlight, eat live foods that contain vitamin D. So in theory most likely the mice being fed to our snakes aren't giving much vitamin D.
And then some owners like yourself are covering all 3 sides, plus the snake is in its hide all day so is it getting any UV at all? I agree BP probably need the smallest amount of UV for their bodies and probably nothing any owner needs to worry about. But I believe more UV is beneficial in captivity cause our creatures may not be out in Africa roaming but at least we can try to give them an environment some what similar.

But to each their, as long as a snake is eating and shedding well and no signs of stress it's a happy snake. And I don't disagree with the 3 covered sides, that's why I asked about it but I'm just staying why I took a different approach

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Originally Posted by Hamsnacks

But I have proved what I'm saying is true. Ball pythons in the wild are exposed to Sunlight every single day through the moon and every time they eat.

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this is the post i first replied to:

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Originally Posted by Hamsnacks

Plus any sun light a snake gets is more beneficial as Vitamin D is good for a snake. With or without the sun shining on the tank, the ball is probably going to be in its hide during the day, sunshine is going be more positive than negative.

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and the link you shared says:

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Of course it is also possible that ball pythons do not synthesise vitamin D3 from UVB, but obtain all they need from their diet.

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and the study i shared also states that supplemental UV did nothing to raise calcium absorption in the experimental group.

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Originally Posted by Hamsnacks

In captivity breeder mice 90% of the time are just kept in a box or what not just bulking up to get eaten. While in the wild they are exposed to sunlight, eat live foods that contain vitamin D. So in theory most likely the mice being fed to our snakes aren't giving much vitamin D.

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this argument would hold merit if we knew how much Vitamin D a snake "needs" to be a healthy snake, let alone how much for any additional "benefits" to show from it. no one knows; there are no studies on how much vitamin D is necessary for a ball python diet.

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Originally Posted by Hamsnacks

But I believe more UV is beneficial in captivity cause our creatures may not be out in Africa roaming but at least we can try to give them an environment some what similar.

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the link you posted disagrees with you tho?

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Originally Posted by Hamsnacks

But to each their, as long as a snake is eating and shedding well and no signs of stress it's a happy snake. And I don't disagree with the 3 covered sides, that's why I asked about it but I'm just staying why I took a different approach

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exactly. [emoji106] im not "anti light" by any stretch, but i like data and studies. [emoji6]

I'd hope the sun isn't shining into your glass tank, that's an excellent way to roast an animal and you aren't getting them any benefit of sunlight that way anyhow.