Worth Breeding rats?

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Originally Posted by PythonBabes

I only have one snake myself and I breed my own rats. It's fun to me, except the one male I have can get stinky sometimes. As for breeding them for food/attachment, I'm only really attached to my first breeding pair, Wendi and Bluey, and maybe a few I know I'm holding back. When you have 8-10 babies being born, you can't be like 'oh he/she is soo cute I can't feed him'.

It's a great way to make a little side cash too. I don't have pet quality vs feeder quality, all of my rats are friendly and are suitable for pet homes. I sell my extra rats (I do only have just one snake) to pet owners and my small local pet shop will also buy the females.

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That's awesome. Yea I plan on getting a nice healthy/friendly pair and sticking with them. What kind of housing system do you use? Any recommendation when doing a small project?


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My main breeding pair and any current babies I keep in a huge 3 level CritterNation cage. At 5-7 weeks, I keep maybe 3 to raise up to the size that Khaa eats (right between a small and a medium) and sell the rest. Those that I raise up to size stay in a tank setup.

Feeding live saves a ton of time. All you do is put rat in there, wait for strike (mine never takes more than than minute, any longer than that and hes not hungry and I remove rat), make sure rat isn't able to hurt snake while its coiled and you're done.

And don't let people talk down to you/discourage you about feeding live/raising feeders unless they've never consciously eaten a piece of meat:P

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Originally Posted by Brownspidey

So I currently have 6 snakes. I was wondering if it would be worth getting a single pair of breeding rats to help feed my collection?

I don't feel a need to work my way to a colony yet but maybe every couple months supplying my snakes with my own food maybe fun and a little cost saving.

Thoughts? Suggestions?


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Not worth it if you only get a pair, if you want to do it and do it right you will need 1 female rat per snake.

Having a pair will only produce 6 to 12 babies every 3 weeks and it will take it's toll very fast on the female if you do back to back breeding meaning getting pregnant while nursing (=smaller litters with more runts) and if you separate the male you will only get 6 to 12 babies every 10/11 weeks if lucky, once a female enter a breeding rotation it's about 1 week before getting pregnant, 3 weeks for gestation, 3 weeks for nursing.

So no as far as making a difference a pair is not worth it, it's only worth it when you do it seriously and right.

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Originally Posted by PythonBabes

My main breeding pair and any current babies I keep in a huge 3 level CritterNation cage. At 5-7 weeks, I keep maybe 3 to raise up to the size that Khaa eats (right between a small and a medium) and sell the rest. Those that I raise up to size stay in a tank setup.

Feeding live saves a ton of time. All you do is put rat in there, wait for strike (mine never takes more than than minute, any longer than that and hes not hungry and I remove rat), make sure rat isn't able to hurt snake while its coiled and you're done.

And don't let people talk down to you/discourage you about feeding live/raising feeders unless they've never consciously eaten a piece of meat:P

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HAHA thank you for that last part. My snakes all eat live and they haven't had any issues nor have I. They are happy with live and have never seemed stressed from it at all.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Not worth it if you only get a pair, if you want to do it and do it right you will need 1 female rat per snake.

Having a pair will only produce 6 to 12 babies every 3 weeks and it will take it's toll very fast on the female if you do back to back breeding meaning getting pregnant while nursing (=smaller litters with more runts) and if you separate the male you will only get 6 to 12 babies every 10/11 weeks if lucky, once a female enter a breeding rotation it's about 1 week before getting pregnant, 3 weeks for gestation, 3 weeks for nursing.

So no as far as making a difference a pair is not worth it, it's only worth it when you do it seriously and right.

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So maybe 1 male with 2-3 females to alternate pregnancy periods and give time in between to ensure they stay healthy and strong?

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Originally Posted by Brownspidey

So maybe 1 male with 2-3 females to alternate pregnancy periods and give time in between to ensure they stay healthy and strong?

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If you want to help with food versus being self-sufficient yes, you have to remove the pregnant female and make sure your male is never alone. Basically rotating the male between 3 tubs with one female each will work the best in your case.

I've bred rats before, so I'll put my 2 cents in. I bred with the intention of producing pet quality animals (breeding to show standards) and using the "culls" as feeders. By "culls" i mean animal of poor temperament, health issues, etc. that would not make acceptable pets.

1. It takes a lot of money in upkeep and you need a good source for food and litter (in bulk). I used Harlan Teklad (native earth) which is a quality rat feed block. Some people use Mazuri, some use "doggy bag" dog food from tractor supply. They need a good percentage of protein, but not too much or too much fat / oil. Around 18 - 16% is a good guideline. The less animal protein in the food, the better. For bedding, shredded aspen is great. I used it over a layer of pine horse stall pellets to reduce odor. Again, you need this in bulk though for it to be cost effective. BTW, the food has a shelf life of about 4-6 months from the millage date before it is not good to feed any more (can be extended with freezing).

2. You need more space than you would think and good ventilation. I used large clear plastic totes..The biggest I could find. I cut openings for the sides and top and covered with aluminum "hardware cloth" that was 1/2". I attached this by weaving wire through soldered holes around the openings. Wire must cover the cut edges or they will chew. I also kept pet rats and had the big double critter nation cages (basically 2, 3'x2'x2' cages with an opening between). These gave a lot of room, but were a nightmare to clean.

BTW, you will need a tub for the breeding pair, and 2 tubs for growouts. You will need to separate the male from the female close to delivery or she will be bred right after and will be pregnant while nursing (not good for her or the litter). Rats are social, so usually you want to keep a pair or more together with the exception being separating a female before she has her litter.

3. I hope you have free time for cleaning..... You will need to change bedding frequently. The denser the population in a tub, the more frequent. Daily is great if you can (I did daily changes with litters and maybe 2 times a week with just adults).

4. You will need a method to euthanize animals to be fed... Even if feeding live, you will have scenarios in which you will need to euthanize. CD is only effective and humane if you know how to do it, so I would suggest a CO2 chamber with a paintball CO2 canister, a coiled remote hose, and about a shoe box-sized plastic tub. I have had to use this method for feeders, but also in cases of severe illness (stroke, tumors, MC "mega-colon", and aggression). The setup cost me maybe $50 for the canister, coiled remote, and tub, but I would not even consider breeding without it.

5. Buy breeding stock from a very well established feeder breeder... One that culls heavily for temperament and has been doing so for generations. I bought my pet stock from a breeder 2 states away that had "good lines" supposedly healthy and temperament friendly rats. My first litter from a rat I got from her, the mother developed maternal aggression after delivery and bit a nice chunk out of my finger... These lines also have cancer / tumor issues, mega colon, and teeth issues in older rats, so all in all, I scrapped my breeding plans and am stopping the line. I say this to emphasize that people in the "pet" side of the hobby will often hide problems with their animals or out right lie about things. Many of them also tolerate and don't euthanize for aggression issues, so sometimes you don't know what you're getting.

Buy from someone that breeds feeders and makes no bones about culling aggressive rats. aggression is genetic and also learned. Even if tamed well, a rat from bad lines can become aggressive due to hormones. Don't buy from someone who has males that won't live together or females that are aggressive with humans or other females. You want calm docile animals that will allow handling even without socialization. I've known people with nerve damage in their hands due to rat bites, so this is no joke. I would buy in person and ask to handle them or at least watch him pull open tubs and handle...you don't want to see any aggression and preferably no fear either. If the breeder says things like "you don't want to mess with that one, he'll bite", etc. do not buy from them.

Also, buy stock that is well past weaning age (say, 8-9 weeks if you can get it). Some lines have mega colon (MC) it is a genetic fault and usually shows up a week or so past weaning (4 weeks). They will develop a huge swollen belly, but also look starved at the same time (ribs, vertebrae visible, etc.). They can't fully digest solid food and continue to eat, but can't pass normal waste. They have to be euthanized. It is recessive and can be carried too, so don't purchase any siblings of rats showing these signs. MC is often carried in lines of "high white" piebald rats, often with blazes.

6. Ventilation and where to house? Hopefully you have a room, a climate controlled, shed or somewhere you can keep them... They do need the same climate as a human basically. BUT they smell... Even when cleaned, they can smell. They don't have a body odor per say, but they mark their territory by spraying / peeing (especially the males) and they can't be fully litter trained (will still mark). If you are sensitive to smells, this would not be the endeavor for you. Cleaning them frequently will help, but if all scent is removed, this can cause males to mark more. When I started out, I thought that changing substrate often would be enough, but there is still odor, so just be aware of that going in.


All- in - all, it can be fun, but isn't cheap, and as was said earlier, you need to kind of like rats. I would not suggest breeding unless you have, say, 20+ snakes. If less than that, you are spending more on food and bedding and your initial setup than the f/t feeders would cost you. If you can go visit a place that has live rats and see what it smells like and what the cleaning, etc. is like, I'd do that first before you decide. If you are still interested, just make sure you have enough time for the daily maintenance and cleaning needing.

Here's my current setup. I keep my rats in the house in my basement together with all of my snakes. They are in a 10 foot x 20 foot room, I pretty much have it maxed out at the moment. Just room for one more hatchling rack (behind my point of view) once I get some babies this year. If I expand any more I'd have to move the rats into the main basement. On the right are two rat racks, the one on the far right with the larger tubs I keep the grow outs (feeders) separated in male / female tubs. I also keep rat breeder colonies in the larger tubs. I also have one tub for replacement females and one for replacement males so I can rotate those as well.

I'm really trying to get organized this month so I separated all my males and females. Next week I'm going to put one male with six females in a tub, do the same the following week in a separate tub, etc. for 9 weeks (9 tubs). So I'll have nine males in nine tubs with their own females. Then once the females get pregnant they go in a tub by themselves in the rack to the left. They stay there until the babies are weaned and can eat from the food bin above by themselves. Then the female will go into one of the male tubs and the babies get separated by male / female into feeder tubs. If I have too many females in the separate bins I'll combine babies and move them early. I'm also growing up all white females and black or black hooded males as my replacement breeders so I can easily tell them apart when I open the bins.

One thing you need for sure if you keep them in the house is strong air flow and a lot of carbon filtration. I use a carbon filter pad on a box fan air filter, works fantastic. You can hardly smell the rats down there in the snake room. If you turn off the carbon air filter it smells bad in just a minute or two. I keep the fan on high and change out the carbon every month or so (3-4 layers of carbon filter pads).

The rat rack on the left (right side of room) has 10 smaller tubs on top for mice, comes in handy when I don't have enough small rats.

The rack in front and to the left are filled with nearly 50 snakes, some I'm growing out and some are for sale but most are breeders. Right now I have room for about six more snakes! To the left of that is my incubator (beverage cooler conversion).

This rat breeding setup should produce about 100 rats per week (about 5,000 per year!). I'd say it takes about four hours per week to maintain.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...nakeroom-1.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...nakeroom-2.jpg

Just a few more things I'd like to add:

If you go with nice ARS racks like I have above you won't have to worry about chew outs and rats running all over your house, which is one of the main reasons I invested in a professional rack instead of building my own. Also, there is really no daily maintenance besides filing up the water pail on top. One rack holds 150-200 pounds of feed, I just top off the food twice a week during cleaning day. Takes about one hour to clean one rack, so two hours mid week and two hours on the weekend. So much less work than tubs or aquariums!

I do check every tub in the room once a day, all the snakes and rodents, only takes me about 30 minutes and I like to be reminded of what is going on and to correct any issues (spot clean snakes). I often find a dead baby rat here and there from a mom neglecting it, best to remove it before it smells. I also spray each tub with disinfectant followed by washing down with water before adding new bedding, need to get the old smells out of the tubs to keep the room smelling fresh! By the way, I have no ventilation at all, just good carbon filtration and it works great!